**Spoilers** ME3 Thoughts on the ending/s

The "endings" (i use the plural loosely since they are apparantly all roughly the same with a different colour energy wave thingy, give or take Shep surviving) have big enough plot holes to fit the titanic through.

There was actually a part near the start of the Earth segment (the last chance to talk to all your squadmates and such) where Anderson says he was born in London and Shep reacted with surprise, but earlier on during a conversation with Anderson on the vid com on the Normandy he already told Shep he was from London.
Makes me wonder if whoever wrote the end actually had anything to do with writing the rest.
 
imo they should just pretend their current endings are just an imagination while sheppard is unconsious after getting hit by the beam and add decent endings as dlc or a patch
 
Alright, after checking out the bioware forums I've become convinced that everything between being hit by the beam to my Shepard showing signs of survival post credits did not happen in reality.

There's a huge thread about this here: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...ndex/9727423/1

I'll post some highlights of why I found this theory so convincing despite not having major problems with the normally seen ending.

1.I didn't notice this originally because I was completely focusing on Shepard but they make it clear that his body is still on Earth at the end.
a)the rubble is concrete and rebar, not Citadel materials
b)there is the sound of wind blowing and the Citadel would lack wind.
c)The sky looks exactly like it did in London.

2.Everyone looks happy or in awe as they exit the Normandy, they wouldn't be if this was all real but a dying Shepard would want to see them safe, happy, and at peace.

3.Apparently you can have a critical mission failure while you're supposedly talking to the reaper controller. This occurs if you take too long to decide which of the three options to take and you get a message that the Citadel was destroyed. The Citadel that you're supposed to be inside, yet from what I've heard you still see your surroundings intact. I looked for a youtube of this but couldn't find one, I'm going to check it out in the morning on my first file but have to replay the final missions.

4.Harbinger flying off without finishing Shepard is definitely strange, so is a complete lack of reaper forces(besides TIM) on the Citadel.

5.The radio chatter that everyone's down yet Anderson and Shepard both supposedly make it to the Citadel. My first playthrough I was expecting a "Wait! Shepard just got up! He's moving towards the (whatever that light thing was... Conduit?)!" to come across, but if he's hearing the actual chatter in an unconscious state this suddenly makes sense as well.

There's a bit of a split between people that believe Shepard is having a near death(or death) experience and those that believe he's also being subjected to a heavy attempt at indoctrination.

Here's some that points to indoctrination that I think is going on, there's variations but my own personal opinion is that the reapers have been working towards indoctrinating Shepard for most of the game.

Mass effect codex on indoctrination:
"Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.

Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind.

Indoctrination can create perfect deep cover agents. A Reaper's "suggestions" can manipulate victims into betraying friends, trusting enemies, or viewing the Reaper itself with superstitious awe. Should a Reaper subvert a well-placed political or military leader, the resulting chaos can bring down nations.

Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable, Higher mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years."

1.There's this buzzing growling noise that we hear at times early in the game, like at the end of the scene with the child(no I don't mean the loud reaper one). Personally, I don't think the kid's real at all. He's shown at the beginning playing with a Normandy model yet Commander Shepard is there, who he likely idolizes, and his reaction is to insist that Shepard can't save him and back away? Also, Shepard is the only one to ever react to the child's presence.

2.Vega also hears a high pitched sound that he complains about, seemed like a throwaway comment at the time but its been pointed out to me that the last one like this in Mass Effect was from Kaidan in ME1 on the Citadel, right when he's next to what we later learn is the Conduit. Every other person on the ship has been exposed to reapers before or been on the ship before, perhaps they've tuned it out as background noise at this point. My guess on what's causing this: the Reaper IFF that we installed in 2.

2.Whispers can be heard in both the scene with the illusive man and the Reaper controller(kid AI thing) There's also the black around the edges of the screen, both of these heavily featured in the dream sequences that Shepard had, in each dream they got more pronounced indicative of Shepard getting closer to being fully indoctrinated. It made me think of alien voices even on my first playthrough but I'd not looked at the codex entry at that point.

3.The way that Shepard doesn't question the choices presented to him and the way that it seems like the reaper controller is presented as highly advanced/god-like. Suddenly Shepard is both trusting the enemy and seeing it somewhat with awe. *points at codex*

4.Anderson suddenly represents the renegade choice and TIM represents paragon? To me it seems like the color coding is representing the indoctrination confusing Shepard entirely making the wrong thing seem right.

If you attempt to control you've fallen into the same trap that TIM did. If you attempt to combine synthetic/organic forcibly you're falling into the same trap as Saren. Either way Shepard's will has been defeated, which is why he only awakens back on Earth if his resolve stays strong and despite everything still attempts to destroy the Reapers in his mind. Shepard burning in the final dream sequence as he embraces the child could be seen as a warning to the players not to trust him or Shepard's own subconscious warning him.

There's even more than this in the thread, I originally clicked it thinking that it would be full of wishful thinking but if anything the ending seems more bleak this way since Shepard is either indoctrinated, dead and the reapers are still around, or waking up to Harbinger above him and between him and the entrance to the Citadel.
 
Just finished it.

I quite liked my ending, I wasn't expecting the everyone-rides-off-into-the-sunset ending and baring some inconsistencies and unanswered questions found it pretty good. I am confused at why I never got the "secret" ending bit where you can see someone (presumably Shepherd) under the pile of rubble taking a gasp for air. Had about 6,300 Military Strength by the end and maximum Paragon.
 
all that text

no just no, everything you posted and what is on that board is people so annoyed with the ending that they will literally grab atoms out of the game and pretend they mean something. Bioware is not that clever

its a form of denial - they cant hack it that the game ended so poorly but sorry it did and that's life.:p

oh and if it was a dream (which it wasnt) you wouldnt get the sodding game over screen if you let TLM shoot you.
 
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Bioware is not that clever

That i think is the issue, the writers tried to be too clever instead of giving us the simple reapers die, galaxy saved, shep goes off and makes babies ending a lot of people want.
 
That all ignores a lot of the plot holes like, oh, randomly the Reapers can attack any system they want, destroy entire fleets.... but the fleets are still there fighting(weeks later?, months, still not a clue?). They arrive back at earth, reapers on one side, everyone else on the other, they go towards each other, and its war....... but a bunch of shuttles can all just fly through the Reaper armada with no problems, only for 60% of them to get shot down by anti aircraft stuff.

Reapers in the first films were essentially entirely untouchable, way to powerful and even the video of the start of the battle shows not heavy damage to one ruddy reaper, which damaged blows up some ship with one shot.

Turians have to "hold" the moon otherwise everything is lost........ even though their ships can't seemingly hurt reapers AND their homeplanet is already on fire because Reapers have landed. So holding an unoccupied moon, which seemingly has stupid basic basis and no orbital weapons at all, is the key to saving their planet, which is under attack where their population is being exterminated? Seriously what part of that makes sense?

ending wise, Citadel blows up, where would parts of that end up, earth, which it's in orbit of........ hence quite obviously if you get the shepard lives ending, he's on earth. If he magically traveled to earth after running needlessly into an explosion, or if he was on a bit that crash landed, or if he used the same travel method when the whole crew down on earth magically ended up on the Normandy, again reapers EVERYWHERE, almost untouchable, huge fire power, but landing the crew and getting back to Normandy the reapers just ignored these guys.

Does my head in how stupid it is, really the whole game, while fun till the ending, made no sense. This is the difference between an epic and brilliant game, ME1, and a truly craptastic cash in ending(ME3/matrix 2/3) when the story makes no ruddy sense AT ALL, start to finish.

It's also worth mentioning Cerberus, they have ships, massive armies, ability to get anywhere(despite obviously always having to travel from one system to another via a god damned mass effect relay..... so could be easily spotted with ships stationed near relays. Despite being deemed terrorists, and willing to sacrifice human life for one mans power, somehow everyone wanted to work for them all of a sudden, and they moved around seemingly invisible to the rest of the galaxy, able to land or be anywhere at will with no opposition?
 
Loved every minute of it until the end which, like most popular movie/tv series or game leaves a lot to be answered, gaps, mistakes (plot) and it's been like this since anyone can remember . I should've expected it because it's the norm but I hoped for something more.

However, I live in belief that the story is not over and this isn't the last we'll hear of shepard, it can't end like that. One thing I absolutely hate is a story come to a short, abrupt end. I've been fed to follow the story someone's told me and now I'm supposed to make the rest up? No.

It's like voyager, woohooo we got home, 10 seconds of CGI then that's it, end.
Is there a book to take place after ME3? I've read the first 3.
 
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Loved every minute of it until the end which, like most popular movie/tv series or game leaves a lot to be answered, gaps, mistakes (plot) and it's been like this since anyone can remember . I should've expected it because it's the norm but I hoped for something more.

However, I live in belief that the story is not over and this isn't the last we'll hear of shepard, it can't end like that. One thing I absolutely hate is a story come to a short, abrupt end. I've been fed to follow the story someone's told me and now I'm supposed to make the rest up? No.

It's like voyager, woohooo we got home, 10 seconds of CGI then that's it, end.
Is there a book to take place after ME3? I've read the first 3.


Exactly. I remember that annoying the hell out of me too.
 
This is the difference between an epic and brilliant game, ME1, and a truly craptastic cash in ending(ME3/matrix 2/3) when the story makes no ruddy sense AT ALL, start to finish.

Yep. Matrix was awesome, 2nd and 3rd were major letdown in comparison. Same with Mass Effect, they could have done so much better with the story for ME2 and 3. As you pointed out, a lot of it does not even make sense. Need to shut your mind down to enjoy it. Though these days I am finding I have to do that with a lot of tv shows/movies/games :(
 
To be fair re: Drunkenmaster, a lot of it is explained in the codex.

You don't get told of it during the game but the codex mentions they have been able to take out reapers (it's 3 years later, thanix cannons *** - mini reaper weapons from sovereign). That some ships are able to out maneuover some reaper formations by jumping in from FTL and firing it's weapon/moving quicker than the reaper can.

You see a brief moment of this in the end battle when a group of 3 alliance ships on 1 reaper all move around it, two avoid being hit but the third does.

Also the large reapers kept to large population centers and ground forces were able to fend themselves off away from them from long periods. You can't think of the reapers as indestructable, it's just in the first game it was 1 very powerful/bigger one and technology was so far behind. A lot of new tech from destroyed reapers/derelict reapers. They weren't even prepared in 3 let alone 1.

1/2 had a decent flow, it made sense if you read all the codex, 3 was close but it went off the rails and I'd have really liked the original Dark Energy ending.
 
A little tiny line of codex is not how you explain away a HUGE part of the story in a massive story, that HAS to be part of the main story line.

However, that still doesn't explain it, again at the end the entire freaking galaxy's fleet opened fire with everything they had, and they showed just about one big reaper having one of its "legs" blown off, after which it then destroyed another ship in ONE SHOT. From what I can remember they managed to not show one getting destroyed at all, only a few small reaper aircraft. Likewise the entire quarian fleet and the Normandy took several big shots only at a specific point and time in the firing sequence to destroy the reaper on the quarian homeworld.

Yet NOTHING< not a hint of this was mentioned or shown in the final battle either. No "hey guys, we're going into the battle for the universe, btw, if we group up and and make sure we fire on the reapers main guns as they charge the weapon we might be able to both destroy them AND prevent them from firing"........... nope, not mentioned and at no stage in the final fight did we see a single instance of this occuring.

Yup Sheperd found their biggest weakness, no one remembered it or used it... well once with some missiles at the end(though no one else on the planet seemed remotely aware of this).

The final battle's video was cheaped out and a joke as well, as said I don't think you actually saw a single reaper vessel getting destroyed, better maneuverability is one thing.... which becomes completely negated when flying around one ship but when a hundred others can fire on you still. After the battle started, the game implies hours and hours has passed, yet showed zero progress in the battle.

When it came to Earth/sol/pavel/moon reapers either had, so many numbers they could breeze past the ships in the system, or so much firepower they destroyed most ships in the system then landed, both are suggested, neither is "confirmed", neither suggests the home forces had a chance in hell.

Again I'll point out that, midway through the battle with the insanely powerful reapears against thousands of fighters, a bunch of shuttles just breezed through and half of them landed on earth....... they do that all the time......... zomg massive space battle and everyone is dying but meh, these shuttles can all just pass through without being fired on. The ONLY time this is explained is with the Normandy's "stealth" technology which was shared magically with a new paint job on the same shuttle everyone else uses.

It's a non ending, ending, as mentioned with Voyager, its becoming common in films/tv these days, just end it then explain nothing, its easier, and its very much a sign of terrible writing.

Personally I think they utterly screwed up the end, including the Citadel which should have been another awesome battle type situation.

Not having any real prologue type situation, the "we've won" moment of the fleet, people talking to Shepard or about Shepard if he dies, etc, etc, terrible.

Then again we have the three actual endings, terribad in every way. Destoying the reapers requires destroying the Geth... why? Controlling them requires my death, not incredibly plausible, the Catalyst is clearly completely willing to let me choose the reapers... and potentially it's own fate, death maybe.... and it already controls the reapers, you can't just ask it, err, you want to maybe just call off the reapers and promise to stop them coming back?

He apparently controls the reapers...... why does the Citadel require the destruction of all Mass Effect relays....... to control the reapers when the Catalyst is currently doing it without them blowing up?

Synthetic thing is just, a completely and utter cop out joke ridiculous crap. Geth won't fight Quarians, because they have what amounts to implants? The only "idea" was the created rebel against the creators. Just because Quarians are ALSO partly synthetic DID NOT CHANGE that they were the geth's creators, and the Geth had no DNA so how could they have organic DNA combined.

Nonsense in every sense in every ending and vast amounts of the story of the final game.

It's really the sign of a truly awful story, when you don't understand something, you think about it longer makes less, and less sense, then descends into nonsensical crap if you think about it too much. A great story is the opposite, you might miss things, but when you think about it the story makes more and more sense and you link things that explains other things you didn't "get" at first.

The more I think about everything in ME3, the more I find gaping plot holes and utter stupidity :(
 
Heh, how many alliance vessels did you see destroyed in the vid?

1 Small Fighter got destroyed.
One frigate took a direct hit but shrugged it off.
Another frigate/gunship? Destroyed.
Two.

vs

1 Large Reaper was, until the video cut off; getting owned.


It's a simple explanation of, that's all they made of the space battle for CGI, you said it yourself though the vid was pretty cheaped out in design, it was awesome to see yes, but what happened, meh.

You have to remember a superior force doesn't mean a clear and cut victory, real life history and current affairs show this to be true. Reapers use attrition warfare, they have the "manpower" to do it, slowly wearing down the enemy forces who are trenched in, remember though the reapers still need millions&millions of humans to add to their "collective", after all the original plot explains they take on species just like the borg in a way, adding the biological and technological advances to their own for the greater good, to try and stop the ending dark matter will bring to everything.

Even they, the reapers of multiple millions of years age (36million years the largest number I heard) still haven't worked out everything of the universe and still require the, whilst hostile in it's nature; contribution of other races to try and solve it.

They aren't out there to kill every last one of a species, they want to take over them.
Yes, they could just wipe out the entire planet easy but that's not their goal.

I have no doubt the entire alliance fleet and it's support would've been destroyed if left to carry on without shepards input on the crucible/citadel, but ground warfare would've gone on for ages. In the codex for military strength they had calculated they'd be able to keep the war going for just over a decade, minor in comparison to the protheans century long battle.
I just don't think we should see them as powerful as they appear for the reasons they are not there for simplistic annihilation.

Also, if sovereign had done the same thing against the citadel defence force in it's current state, it wouldn't have lasted very long at all.

Edit: My guess for the crucibals purpose was a reset switch, before I knew what it really d id.
As for the destruction of the relays, isn't that clear? I thought it was, the reason for the relays destruction was because the shockwave of the citadel wasn't going to reach all of the galaxy, it needed the rest of the relays to do it, as we know the explosion/effect is system wide. Right?
 
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Going by the in game galaxy map there isn't even a relay in every star system (only each cluster) so if the energy wave needed the relays to spread across the galaxy it kinda misses a huge amount anyway.

Rather sad when the more thought you put into the endings the more plot holes appear.


One of the funnier parts of the end space battle part is when you remember the talk the military guys on the citadel in ME2 are giving about newton physics and the ME ship weapons, every shot fired in that battle that missed is gonna leave one hell of a hole on the Earth :p
 
There's nothing to say the tech used in sending out a "kill all reapers/make everything synthetic/control all reapers has a greater impact radius than the complete destruction of a mass relay, also remember there was an energy beam/blast that was transfered from the citadel as the point of origin.

Obviously you can't make an answer for everything but paying attention and thinking even a little bit out of the box helps.

I can't really remember the last time a movie, book or tv series went to so much detail and hand holding to account for every single bit of detail, all fiction that I've ever witnessed has left me wanting MORE ANSWERS.
Fact is you'd have to go on for an age or two to explain everything, people simply don't/not needed in other cases. :(
 
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This article sums it up well for me-

You have to hand it to BioWare. In nearly every way that mattered, they delivered a rich, complex experience for Mass Effect 3. Anticipation of the game’s finale is brought to a fever pitch by the incredible effort it takes to reach it. It almost defies belief, but after 2 previous games that each require close to 50 hours per character to complete, the scale of Mass Effect 3 almost dwarfs its predecessors. Over the course of game, Shepard – and the player – desperately tries to unite the galaxy behind his effort to defeat the reapers. As expected, you can condemn entire civilizations to destruction or save them, resolve centuries-old conflicts, wage massive battles. You may even play space cupid by helping Joker and Edi (and, it’s implied, Tali and Garrus) to hook it up before the final battle.
You’ll also visit every major planet in the galaxy, reveal the truth about Prothean civilization, watch as friends die, innocents are slaughtered, whole cultures are threatened with destruction. Every moment of the game feels a necessary part of the war effort, every decision feels critical, and as you begin the final mission, you actually feel the weight of 5 years of play, dozens of well-written friendships, and 15,000 years of galactic civilization are behind you. It’s a glorious accomplishment. And that accomplishment is completely undone as the story is wrapped up via a barely-interactive cutscene lasting less than 10 minutes.

That kind of terseness, in addition to just feeling cheap, also manages the particularly nasty trick of completely robbing players of closure. This is critical to understanding why the fanbase is so upset. It’s not just that players are forced to choose from one of three nearly identical endings. It’s not even that they are presented with each choice regardless of what kind of game they played, so long as their EMS rating was sufficiently high. It’s that the player is never given any sense of how the choice they ultimately made affected the galaxy they worked so hard to save.
Instead, they see one of 3 identical, context free scenes of the Normandy crash landing on a planet somewhere, followed by a nonsensical epilogue featuring a Grandfather and his grandson that almost seems to smugly imply that the gamers themselves were nothing but children who couldn’t fully understand these events. And adding insult to injury, they receive a message urging them to purchase DLC. We would never suggest that BioWare’s job is to be nothing more than an infodump for nit-picky fans, but after 5 years and hundreds of hours, Mass Effect 3 players deserved more than a text message urging them to buy more content.
http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/2/
 
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