Spring Budget 2023

[Werewolf]

Have you forgotten when I told you yesterday direct top ups are prohibited?



You have supernumerary staff, then depending on the size of the nursery you have managers, admin, cleaners etc. Plus obviously all the other normal overheads.

Not to mention the direct childcare staff won't just be working exactly to the hours that the children are there, they'll be arriving before the first child and leaving after the last child meaning that you can probably add at least an hour per day per staff member outside of the advertised "opening times" to allow for prep, basic clean up, and "sorry I got caught up in traffic" time.

And as you say things like the other overheads such as heating, supplies, repairs, replacement toys, rent. Just the cost of the kids snacks etc has probably more than eaten up the governments increase per hour.

 

[dlockers]

I mean, it's not surprising you have an antiquated and uninformed view on this subject, since you do with most others, but since having been a manager of a large nursery previously and with my partner who owns and runs an outstanding Nursery, I can confidently say you have no idea what you are talking about

I appreciate your ignorant view, like many others ITT, is because you don't know much about child development, why would you you are skilled in other areas, but I would advocate all children should go to a nursery setting. Working or non-working parents. This whole framing of the "childcare*" being just so parents can get back to work is just so sad, as no-one even talks about or cares about what is best for the children, which is what it should be about.

Believe me, the parents main job is to provide a stable, loving home for their children, but if you want the best out of their development then send them to a Nursery. This isn't a slight on parents, but you wouldn't expect them to know what's best for child development, why would they? And for all the will in the world they can't just be there dedicating their time all day every day to the child like the people paid to do it as a job can.

You would be amazed at the difference in stages of development between a child that has been at Nursery from an early age and one who comes for the first time when they are 3 to get their "free" hours, it's just night and day.

* I think this all stems from the antiquated view point that "childcare" with nurserys is just "baby sitting". They just look after the child while the parent goes out to work. They don't, it's now called Early Years Education for a reason, as we have now found, the first two years are some of the most important in setting the foundations of a childs whole future development.

I always use the analogy that anyone can grow a plant or some fruit and veg. Put it in the soil, water it feed it and it'll grow. But if you want the best out of that plant, to get award winning fruit and veg, then it takes a lot of knowledge, skill and effort.

10000% agree. My daughter is 10x her friends who do not go to nursery.

 

[ChrisD.]

Here we have someone earning six figures moaning they don’t earn enough to pay the bills.

Riggghhttt…

What’s your point?

 

[Ahleckz]

What’s your point?

If you are struggling to pay your bills when you’re earning such large amounts, I’d suggest you’ve overstretched yourself somewhere and instead of moaning about the lack of freebies, or worrying that it’s difficult to be creative with your tax affairs you should maybe get your own spending in order first.

How anyone earning such large amounts can struggle to pay the bills is their fault through poor fiscal planning. I also don’t think it’s fair of them to expect such large amounts of free childcare when they should be able to easily afford this.

 

[EvilRob]

Here we have someone earning six figures moaning they don’t earn enough to pay the bills.

Riggghhttt…

Everything is subjective. 5-6k net per month certainly wouldn't go very far with a mortgage for a normal semi detached in London and childcare to pay for, for example.

 

[Werewolf]

Before subsidised child care became a thing and paid public nurseries became commonplace circa 1989, one wonders how an equable family life could have existed previously.

Perhaps women saw time with their child as welcome then, and not a burden to their social and ecomic aspirations, to be delegated to strangers, in favour of quasi affordable homes, clothes, cars and holidays, often paid for on barely managed credit.

Well for one thing you tended to have far lower standards of care in the old nurseries and playschools...I remember those days and how most of the community child care places were run with a fairly high child to adult ration, without most of the training that is required now, and very few of the background checks.
Indeed I remember that much of it was done by young mums to earn a bit of extra money for themselves, or the likes of teens who were doing it between ongoing education at the likes of evening classes (or on the days they didn't have classes in 6th form), often in places like the local working mens club or community centre outside of their normal open hours so the cost of the venue was low, whilst now most of those venues would not be classed as suitable due them not having the specific safety/facilities that you now find at the dedicated places.
It's truly odd how requiring a higher level of care, training and safety increases the cost of something like childcare.

Also general cost of living was cheaper and your average wage in many parts of the country was a lot lower vs the cost of things like your rent and getting to and from your work.

 

[ChrisD.]

If you are struggling to pay your bills when you’re earning such large amounts, I’d suggest you’ve overstretched yourself somewhere and instead of moaning about the lack of freebies, or worrying that it’s difficult to be creative with your tax affairs you should maybe get your own spending in order first.

How anyone earning such large amounts can struggle to pay the bills is their fault through poor fiscal planning. I also don’t think it’s fair of them to expect such large amounts of free childcare when they should be able to easily afford this.

I think you need to adjust your views on reality rather than falsely judging my finances. Mortgage, council tax and childcare is £3k a month alone. I don’t exactly live in a mansion either.

As for freebies, why should a household with £199k income be entitled to free childcare and tax relief
when we are not, when their income is significantly higher than ours?

 

[Ahleckz]

I think you need to adjust your views on reality rather than falsely judging my finances. Mortgage, council tax and childcare is £3k a month alone. I don’t exactly live in a mansion either.

No, you’re view on reality is wrong. 96% of the population earn less than £100k and manage. Yet you can’t? And my views on reality are wrong? Right oh!

More than half of Britons earning £80,000 to £100,000 believe they're 'about average'

Polling reveals Britons attitudes about their own incomes, just as soaring living costs bite into wages across the country

www.independent.co.uk

 

[ChrisD.]

No, you’re view on reality is wrong. 96% of the population earn less than £100k and manage. Yet you can’t? And my views on reality are wrong? Right oh!

More than half of Britons earning £80,000 to £100,000 believe they're 'about average'

Polling reveals Britons attitudes about their own incomes, just as soaring living costs bite into wages across the country

www.independent.co.uk

Who said I can’t manage?

Another poster has pointed out why £5-6k doesn’t go far, that didn’t suit your narrative so you’ve chosen to ignore it.

 

[Mysterae_]

I mean, it's not surprising you have an antiquated and uninformed view on this subject, since you do with most others, but since having been a manager of a large nursery previously and with my partner who owns and runs an outstanding Nursery, I can confidently say you have no idea what you are talking about

I appreciate your ignorant view, like many others ITT, is because you don't know much about child development, why would you you are skilled in other areas, but I would advocate all children should go to a nursery setting. Working or non-working parents. This whole framing of the "childcare*" being just so parents can get back to work is just so sad, as no-one even talks about or cares about what is best for the children, which is what it should be about.

Believe me, the parents main job is to provide a stable, loving home for their children, but if you want the best out of their development then send them to a Nursery. This isn't a slight on parents, but you wouldn't expect them to know what's best for child development, why would they? And for all the will in the world they can't just be there dedicating their time all day every day to the child like the people paid to do it as a job can.

You would be amazed at the difference in stages of development between a child that has been at Nursery from an early age and one who comes for the first time when they are 3 to get their "free" hours, it's just night and day.

* I think this all stems from the antiquated view point that "childcare" with nurserys is just "baby sitting". They just look after the child while the parent goes out to work. They don't, it's now called Early Years Education for a reason, as we have now found, the first two years are some of the most important in setting the foundations of a childs whole future development.

I always use the analogy that anyone can grow a plant or some fruit and veg. Put it in the soil, water it feed it and it'll grow. But if you want the best out of that plant, to get award winning fruit and veg, then it takes a lot of knowledge, skill and effort.

Hear hear.

When our lad was of nursery age we put in him in an outdoors type nursey where he'd learn about dirt, campfires, nature, pooping in a bucket, tee-pee tents, bugs, sticks, stones, running about in the great fresh air. It was awesome for him, sure he came home dirty and quite knackered but always fulfilled! It was great until the local council shut it down due to H&S without a single incident occurring. I appreciated the work and effort required to create and manage such a nursery, I certainly couldn't have done it.

People need to stop with the attitude that nursey is just a childminder service so the parents can work or loaf around; nurseries can offer a lot more than just colouring in or playdoh.

 

[Azza]

Why are nursary so expensive?

Are they earning too much money?

My daughters nursery is now ultimately owned by a private equity group so that probably doesn't help.

 

[Freefaller]

Why not just make a SIPP contribution before end of tax year? Unless you want the income.

Yes that's an option.

 

[thenewoc]

I don’t want to fall out, but fixing PC’s as well as doing agency work doesn’t count, because you are only doing it to look like a business. I’ll apologise if you’ve got a business plan for expansion and employ staff who aren’t called Mrs New OC.

To be fair though, you might qualify for “Freelancer”.

You obviously don't understand how business works. You couldn't as you say fix some PC's to mask your real business activity because fixing PC's would have to account for more than 50% of your turnover to reflect that in your SIC code. Furthermore the contracting side is assessed on a contract by contract basis and not your turnover as a whole. You also don't need a Mrs in terms of substitution as you can sub contract or hire general staff as PAYE since the client is buying a service rather than employing an exact individual although you may appoint someone who has overall responsibility for delivering a specific project.

 

[thenewoc]

Aha, so you’re a contractor…..ah well. Wait until India really ramps up it’s working visa demands for the new trade deal.

I guessed because you said “client”. You’re not a ”Managing Director” or an “Entrepreneur” either.

If you've ever dealt with Indian outsourcing you'd know they have nothing on employing someone locally. They just say they can do everything and everything will be delivered on time, whatever it takes for them to win a contract that they don't then go on to deliver on their promises. The native language and cultural differences are also a huge factor when conveying requirements that are understood in the way the client intended.

 

[Chris Wilson]

A lot of conscience salving and vested interests occurring here

 

[Jokester]

If you've ever dealt with Indian outsourcing you'd know they have nothing on employing someone locally. They just say they can do everything and everything will be delivered on time, whatever it takes for them to win a contract that they don't then go on to deliver on their promises. The native language and cultural differences are also a huge factor when conveying requirements that are understood in the way the client intended.

My industry has made repeated attempts over the last 20 years to outsource work to India and it’s always ends up a disaster.

 

[Freefaller]

I mean, it's not surprising you have an antiquated and uninformed view on this subject, since you do with most others, but since having been a manager of a large nursery previously and with my partner who owns and runs an outstanding Nursery, I can confidently say you have no idea what you are talking about

I appreciate your ignorant view, like many others ITT, is because you don't know much about child development, why would you you are skilled in other areas, but I would advocate all children should go to a nursery setting. Working or non-working parents. This whole framing of the "childcare*" being just so parents can get back to work is just so sad, as no-one even talks about or cares about what is best for the children, which is what it should be about.

Believe me, the parents main job is to provide a stable, loving home for their children, but if you want the best out of their development then send them to a Nursery. This isn't a slight on parents, but you wouldn't expect them to know what's best for child development, why would they? And for all the will in the world they can't just be there dedicating their time all day every day to the child like the people paid to do it as a job can.

You would be amazed at the difference in stages of development between a child that has been at Nursery from an early age and one who comes for the first time when they are 3 to get their "free" hours, it's just night and day.

* I think this all stems from the antiquated view point that "childcare" with nurserys is just "baby sitting". They just look after the child while the parent goes out to work. They don't, it's now called Early Years Education for a reason, as we have now found, the first two years are some of the most important in setting the foundations of a childs whole future development.

I always use the analogy that anyone can grow a plant or some fruit and veg. Put it in the soil, water it feed it and it'll grow. But if you want the best out of that plant, to get award winning fruit and veg, then it takes a lot of knowledge, skill and effort.

Mic drop post.

LOVE LOVE LOVE this post.

Childcare providers are such a critical part of a child's development to get them ready for school, but also develop some independence. Also, yes whilst the "traditionalists" think we should stay at home to look after our kids, yes that is important, but you have childcare to supplement your parental elements - also the way life is these days it's important for men and women to keep their careers going because unfortunately this country does not really support working families.

The Childcare providers that we've used have 100% helped our children flourish, grow more confident, and develop far quicker than we could have done alone - plus they've made a lot of friends as a result which is also super important.

 

[Freakbro]

Thank you, thank you....I'm here all week

 

[dr_volki]

i'm starting to wonder if people even understand the 30hour thing at all. because reading some of the posts some certainly don't
here's a liitle break down for mine:
30hours for 38 weeks = 1140 hours total.
my nurseries opening hours are 07:30-18:00 = 10.5h /day = 52.5h /w = 2730h / y (if its open for 52 weeks)

so now maybe to put some actual numbers to it.
the current fees i have been told as of april 2023 will be £1440.xx / month fulltime
luckily for me the 30hour childcare kicks in for me from April, and they are stretching the 30hour things across the whole 12months to keep the billing the same amount. my revised bill is now £1010/m
Judging from other people i know, my nursery fees seem somewhat reasonable (oxford area). So yes it's great help and much appreciated, but certainly still not "free" as people seem to think.

 

[chrcoluk]

I looked into the disability changes some more this morning.

If I have understood this right, basically they have sold it as removing the work capability assessment so its no longer a barrier. But what they have actually done is removed ESA, just removed it completely, so we no longer have a sickness out of work safety net, at least for people who dont qualify for PIP.

Current law requires an assessment to consider someone as fit for work, as an example when they scrapped IB and replaced it with ESA, people had to be assessed for ESA before they could be kicked off, this new white paper removes that obligation, anyone on ESA who doesnt get PIP will suddenly be deemed fit and healthy with no assessment to prove it.

I believe we would be the only country in Europe to not have a safety net for people too ill to work if this change gets ratified.

Its not yet clear if those on PIP who get the health top up on UC will be obligated to look for work. PIP isnt an out of work benefit. The paper doesnt mention any automatic exemption.

From what I understand the NI version of ESA (for people with recent work history) will be unaffected. In addition the changes only affect UC, so those still on legacy benefits wont be affected until they get migrated over. The start date when it will affect new claimants is 2026, so after the GE.

Really bold and just shows how bad our country has become, there simply is not enough empathy for vulnerable people.