Star Trek: Picard

[Safetytrousers]

I really like all of Picard so far.

 

[SixTwoSix]

More waffle about past Trek

You can't do it can you, can't talk about or defend Picard without referring to other Trek. You just post walls of text and repeat the same points over and over in slightly different fashion.

I never said I hated it, I just don't think it's well made, i've already said i'm happy to come back to it if someone tells me in a year or so it really improves. Can happily power through the poor episodes then on the view it will get better. I'm not outraged, i'm not bitter, i'm just a bit disappointed with what we've seen so far. Stewart deserves better than this.

BTW...DS9 is my favourite Trek, loved it when it first came out and still do to this day, even rewatched it entirely a few years back...not a patch on B5 but that's another discussion.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

more waffle

You can't do it can you, you can't acknowledge that criticisms of old Trek without referring to Picard all the time. You just post walls of text and repeat the same points over and over in slightly different fashion.



The new shows WON'T suddenly change and you won't be getting 1980s/1990s Trek back,just like you won't be getting 1960s Trek back - they are shows of their time. If you want old Trek,watch old Trek.

Instead of acting like a hero,and enduring these "awful" new shows,and argueing with people who find yet another geek backlash funny,save some time,and don't argue with people who find it funny,and also don't watch the show. There are 100s of episodes of old Trek you can rewatch.

BTW...DS9 is my favourite Trek, loved it when it first came out and still do to this day, even rewatched it entirely a few years back...not a patch on B5 but that's another discussion.

We agree on something...lol.

 

[TNA]

Lol Cat.

I will just say let's agree to disagree as I said many walls of text ago and leave it at that

 

[james.miller]

Picard is pretty terrible. Every other trek has had issues, yup. But we all new that anyway. Picard is an amalgamation of terrible writing, magic McGuffins, constant belittling of the main character (which is ******* boring) and a healthy dose of bad acting. It's hugely disappointing and no amount of "yeah but Wesley" will change my opinion on that.

Can we stop with the nonsense and get back to discussing PICARD?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I really like all of Picard so far.

I hope that is sarcasm otherwise you are a very brave person indeed posting that here.

Its entertaining guff, much like all Star Trek shows have been. DS9, TNG, Voyager, none of them were amazing shows. I didnt even bother finishing all of Voyager or DS9 as they were a bit pants.

What you found it entertaining - you are as brave as Safetytrousers!!

Say it isn't so.

Also,you thought DS9 and Voyager were crap....wow even braver!!

Some of you have mentioned Agents of Shield. Once out from under the watchful gaze of the MCU it went on to being a great show. Season four on some of the best TV in recent years for me. And if you do give it a go you need to stick with it until episode 17 of season one. Those who watched will know why.

The experts here thought it was crap show which would be cancelled by the end of season one...6 episodes in. Its lasted 7 seasons,all of it was fun!

Lol Cat.

I will just say let's agree to disagree as I said many walls of text ago and leave it at that

Well only 4 more weeks if you can be bothered,and then its back to Discovery,which should make Picard moaning probably look like faint praise.

Decided to go for unsalted popcorn this time - I think there won't be a shortage of salt this time either! It will be a good next few years,you see. Picard and Discovery are only the start.

There are also 3 more rumoured shows in the new Trek universe - a Pike spinoff,a section 31 spinoff and a Starfleet Academy spinoff(targetted at younger people):
https://boundingintocomics.com/2020...t-picard-season-2-and-new-info-on-section-31/

Apparently the Dominion will be in a Star Trek series next year....so another redesign I expect which will annoy people.

Then eventually they will eventually cancel all of it as they might as well go with less aggro and make some superhero show with less expensive sets,and then the fans will moan for another 10 year wishing there was more Trek.

I still remember for a long time,we had hardly any show set in space...might as well store up those now....I can see another drought happening!

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Picard is pretty terrible. Every other trek has had issues, yup. But we all new that anyway. Picard is an amalgamation of terrible writing, magic McGuffins, constant belittling of the main character (which is ******* boring) and a healthy dose of bad acting. It's hugely disappointing and no amount of "yeah but Wesley" will change my opinion on that.

Can we stop with the nonsense and get back to discussing PICARD?

You are not discussing Picard,you are just moaning just like all the people dorks who moaned about every other series. If it is so bad,then stop moaning and watch another show. People can't even discuss anything in this thread,as its half filled with people just who don't like the show,and are making the same complaints again and again - so now can we stop with the nonsense and actually try and talk about where the story is going,instead of but,but its horrible,blah,blah.

Only very few are trying to talk about where the story is going - its all moan,moan its not proper Trek.

The new shows WON'T suddenly change and you won't be getting 1980s/1990s Trek back,just like you won't be getting 1960s Trek back - they are shows of their time. If you want old Trek,watch old Trek.

If we want to hear people moaning people can go on rotten tomatoes.

 

[james.miller]

I'm not doing any such thing, wind your neck in.

 

[SixTwoSix]

Lol Cat.

I will just say let's agree to disagree as I said many walls of text ago and leave it at that

Same here, Cat enjoy Picard mate, glad you like it, I do hope it improves and I can come back to it in the future. For the moment though, i'm out...too much other good TV to waste more time on this.

 

[VincentHanna]

In 1996 I watched Star Trek: First Contact at the cinema.

I didn't actually get in to TNG until I bought the seasons on DVD around about 2002. I can't remember if I then bought the TNG movies to watch but I've certainly seen them all.

I must have watched DS9 around 2004.

Anyway my point is that I wasn't a fan back when these were on TV so I had the benefit of watching them really close together rather than strung out over 7 years, so I didn't have any preconceptions about DS9 not living up to TNG or stuff like that.

I didn't really watch much of Enterprise when it was on, I might have seen some of season 3 but not enough to get a feel for if it was good or bad.

I don't mind Discovery, it's ok and I tune in every week when it's on, but it doesn't leave much of a lasting impression.

Picard has been variable so far, so I guess lets see where it goes but as previously stated I don't like that the Federation/Starfleet has become some sort of racist corrupt organisation.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I'm not doing any such thing, wind your neck in.

Yes you are,wind your neck in:

Picard is an amalgamation of terrible writing, magic McGuffins, constant belittling of the main character (which is ******* boring) and a healthy dose of bad acting.

That is defined as moaning about the show.

I was trying to talk about some aspects of the show and the universe before and how it might have changed to what we see in the show,and was inundated by its the "worst ever" comments,so that is why all this argueing happened. Even people moaning starfleet should have more ships and them not patroling the former neutral zone was implausible....yet in DS9 Sisko literally says The Dominion invasion happened at the worst time as starfleet was stretched thin..yet all ignored...its the worst show. They are things happening in this show which do link back to earlier Trek series,even the illness Picard suffers from is one he had in TNG in an alternate timeline.

So can we actually try and talk about the story....if its moan,moan poor writing,etc why subject yourself to it?

Even look at some earlier posts from a week or so ago:

While not perfect some of these comments remind me of the early GoT seasons. People working themselves up into a lather over fairly minor things, complaining it was all exposition during the early parts of the season etc.
Come the ep9 & 10 pay offs it'd be back to being the best show in the world again without realising if it weren't for the earlier buildup none of it would have meant anything.
Next season would see the same people doing the same thing.

Ironically last season was the opposite and got panned.

I'm not saying it's going to be as good as GoT but still... give it a chance to find it's feet!

Picard, all day long, wouldn't have stood for a 'Romulan Only' bar. It was also a completely Picard move to rebuke the young chap for killing those Romulans.

Valid criticism for me would be the evil sister trying to evoke some sort of Cersi vibe with her brother. Pretty generic so far but maybe we'll see where her zeal comes from?
The space ship battle was a bit flat, think I've been spoiled with the Expanse!
Referring to Picard as JL does just sound wrong. I guess he's a pretty reverential character and we've only heard him referred to by his rank or full name. We don't know their relationship so to hear someone use a nickname for him is jarring. Just can't picture Picard not squashing it as soon as she tried calling him it.
Maybe it's something he allows now he's retired, but fairly sure she called him it in the flashback when he was an admiral...

I'm liking the ships Captain and his multiple personality disorder manifesting itself through the ship holograms!

Guess what,not everyone is running to conclusions.....its almost people have to hate this 100% or something.

Same here, Cat enjoy Picard mate, glad you like it, I do hope it improves and I can come back to it in the future. For the moment though, i'm out...too much other good TV to waste more time on this.

If I could put up with the awful B5 pilot and watch the whole first season and wonder where are the going with this,I can watch 10 episodes of this series,and then make my mind up.

 

[glenimp617]

I've been rewatching TNG, an episode a night

I forgot how nice deanna troi was

 

[ivrytwr3]

Does anybody read Cats posts? He has obviously spent a lot of time quoting/writing, but i just scroll through it all now without even bothering to read.

I enjoy the Trek universe very much and i thought Picard started out really well, but each episode seems to have got progressively worse.

As for Wesley - never hated him, was an interesting character and potential arc.

As for Tilly - absolutely not, waste of a character and waste of oxygen. She just looks and acts soooo wrong among all the other characters.

 

[SixTwoSix]

They are things happening in this show which do link back to earlier Trek series,even the illness Picard suffers from is one he had in TNG in an alternate timeline.

i thought his illness was due to his previous Borg implants and time as Locutus?

 

[Somnambulist]

Stuff happens. Finally.

 

[james.miller]

That is defined as moaning about the show.

It's a statement, learn the difference. You are boring us all. Just stop it.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

In 1996 I watched Star Trek: First Contact at the cinema.

I didn't actually get in to TNG until I bought the seasons on DVD around about 2002. I can't remember if I then bought the TNG movies to watch but I've certainly seen them all.

I must have watched DS9 around 2004.

Anyway my point is that I wasn't a fan back when these were on TV so I had the benefit of watching them really close together rather than strung out over 7 years, so I didn't have any preconceptions about DS9 not living up to TNG or stuff like that.

I didn't really watch much of Enterprise when it was on, I might have seen some of season 3 but not enough to get a feel for if it was good or bad.

I don't mind Discovery, it's ok and I tune in every week when it's on, but it doesn't leave much of a lasting impression.

Picard has been variable so far, so I guess lets see where it goes but as previously stated I don't like that the Federation/Starfleet has become some sort of racist corrupt organisation.

Enterprise had a great season 4(and the latter part of season 3),but by then the damage had been done and it got cancelled.

I've been rewatching TNG, an episode a night

I forgot how nice deanna troi was

She is.

You know why she doesn't wear a normal uniform in earlier seasons?? The producers were mean and thought she was too fat....but when she wore the normal uniform it was a load of all bunk on their part.

i thought his illness was due to his previous Borg implants and time as Locutus?

Its called Irumodic Syndrome. The episode where it is mentioned is All Good Things:

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/All_Good_Things..._(episode)

Its when Picard seems himself jumping between timepoints. In one jump,he is a very old man,tending his vineyard and is suffering from that condition...sort of foreshadowing what we see in this series.

It's a statement, learn the difference. You are boring us all. Just stop it.

A statement about moaning - you are just repeating the tired complaints again and again. So have the last word then - and continue to suffer for humanity watching this series like some internet hero. Nobody forces you to watch it if its so terrible. First world problems.

 

[Efour]

Episode 6 ?

Indeed something happened and i wont say anymore until every ones seen it except. It feels so disjointed and random and massively wtf sometimes....

 

[Somnambulist]

Also a little interview with Jeri Ryan - post ep 6.

 

[JRS]

Episode 6 - "The Impossible Box"

Spoiler: Commentary

1) Title sounds like a Doctor Who episode
2) Skip forward through the recap, because I don't have the memory capacity of a particularly stupid goldfish.
3) Another flashback?
4) Soji as a young girl, presumably.
5) Not a flashback then, just a dream.
6) Lord, I hope the story separates these two soon. They've got less believable chemistry than...Worf and Troi when they got together later on in TNG.
7) Back to the La Sirena, and Jurati covering her tracks.
8) Elnor as Captain Social Skills™
9) Picard getting a haunted look at the thought of going on the Borg cube. Last time he was on a cube he was a Borg ("Best Of Both Worlds"). Last time, as far as we know, that he dealt with the Borg in-story ("First Contact") it nearly meant the end of everything. Yeah, I'd have a haunted look about it as well.
10) He's very much still not over it. As you'd expect.
11) Elnor may have minimal social skills, but he's at least perceptive enough to see Jurati is in turmoil.
12) Picard retreating to HoloFrance.
13) A spot of light reading.
14) Hooray for continuity though, with the LCARS graphics.
15) Hugh.
16) And a cool shot, looking through the holoscreen so the face of Locutus appears superimposed over Picard's. Nice that it was Locutus as he appeared in "Best Of Both Worlds", and not as he did in Picard's nightmare in "First Contact" with the later Borg aesthetic.
17) Long old start to the episode, that. Nearly nine minutes before the intro and theme music.
18) Rios playing keepy-uppy, presumably to show that he's not North American.
19) So, Jurati's slowly having a mental breakdown.
20) *hums Careless Whisper to himself*
21) "I have a superpower...I can sense mistakes while I'm making them." Eeennhhh...not on the evidence presented so far, you can't.
22) Oh dear, we're back to Rizzo and Narek.
23) Another little "hooray for continuity!" moment, regarding how and why Soji would be programmed to dream. Soong built Data with the ability to do just that - he built circuits in Data's positronic net for this purpose that were supposed to become active after Data reached a certain level of development, an accident involving an energy discharge during an experiment in "Birthright, Part I" 'awakened' the circuits in question.
24) Rizzo is still pretty under-baked as a character. Narek at least is getting a little development.
25) Treknobabble is alive and well
26) I'm quite fond of this new 'in-warp' effect.
27) Rios is certain that Picard has a plan.
28) And he does, for a given value of 'plan'.
29) Jurati not fond of the idea.
30) Raffi hitting the booze and weed reasonably hard.
31) Rolling with the 'seek forgiveness rather than ask permission' model I guess.
32) Absolute candor definitely working well. Though that's another bridge burned for Raffi - she's going to have to start making new friends, because she's running right out of old ones.
33) Cute little moment of applause for her, undercut rather by her stumbling away blind drunk/high as a kite/both and Rios having to help her off in the direction of her cabin
34) The soundtrack heads for the Courage fanfare to put the button on the scene.
35) Soji fell asleep talking to her 'mum' again. Safeties kicking in perhaps.
36) Raffi's hit the maudlin stage of drunk.
37) "No-one gets all of it right, Raf'." I hope we get more of Rios' story down the line.
38) Soji fighting it, but it's a losing battle.
39) Picard's going alone then. This has 'bad idea' written all over it...
40) Back to Soji, and she's investigating her personal stuff. Checking the age of photos with a futuristic scanner.
41) Everything she has - photos, drawings, the cuddly toy, her necklace - is 37 months old. Sort-of a shame that the writers didn't go with 47, given the frequency with which that number appears in Trek
42) Picard heading into nightmarish territory.
43) Quite nice to see someone being happy to see Picard in this show
44) "A new name can be the first step to a new identity...I learned that on the Enterprise all those years ago." D'aww And hooray for continuity!
45) Hugh knows the score - that the only reason Jean-Luc Picard, Admiral, Starfleet retired, would come out here looking for Soji is because she's in danger.
46) Actually, Hugh's got a lot of this figured out.
47) Soji, meanwhile, hasn't. And unfortunately for her, she's confiding in Narek.
48) Who is attempting to steer her in the direction he wants her to go.
49) Picard coming around to the idea that the people on the cube really are no longer Borg. Victims of the Borg, yes. But unquestionably no longer his mortal enemy.
50) Hugh is right. Wouldn't that be something, Picard offering a sympathetic voice in the Federation for the ex-Borg? Shades of the Vulcan proverb, 'only Nixon could go to China'.
51) Rios trying to get Raffi back in the game.
52) Romulan meditation ritual then.
53) Rizzo watching over things on the spy cameras.
54) This episode has a longer running time than the others this season. Which does at least mean that this meditation sequence didn't end up forcing other scenes to be shortened or dropped.
55) Hugh and Picard examining Soji's quarters. They might need to get a wiggle on.
56) Soji's conscious dream sequence/interrogation by Narek still going.
57) And a quick, grudging, word of praise for Narek from his sister. Pity they weren't together for him to hear it, it seems like the sort of thing that he's dying to hear.
58) Narek dropping the hammer on his investigation.
59) And either trying to kill Soji or trigger her 'awakening' as happened with Dahj.
60) Welp, 'awakening' it is. Whether he meant to or not. If he didn't mean to do that, then Rizzo is probably going to take back that "well done brother"...
61) Telling, isn't it, that the first time Picard is helped by anyone from the days on the Enterprise (Hugh in this case) he actually succeeds in something? He's found Soji. Now he's just got to get her out of there.
62) Assuming they get her off the cube, the first thing Soji is going to need is new boots.
63) Memories must be a weird thing when you're a former Borg.
64) Ooh, long range transporter. And not the stupid one from the JJTrek films, where you take a normal transporter and wave a Magic Wand Of Reprogramming™ over it.
65) Picard planning a rendez-vous. But looks like Elnor is pre-empting it by doing something stupid.
66) Never mind! Noble rather than stupid.
67) "Please, my friends. Choose to live." Somehow, I doubt that what is about to happen off-screen goes particularly well for the other Romulans!
68) "Next time..." Things turn to worms for Hugh, and the La Sirena crew. But Picard and Soji are with the Rikers!
69) Nice.

Spoiler: Quick thoughts

A longer episode than the others this season, and thanks to that the pacing issues are mostly resolved. And the story gets to move on this week as well!

Jonathan Del Arco shines as Hugh, getting to do a bit more in this episode than in "The End Is The Beginning". He knows full well that Picard wouldn't be out there if it wasn't bloody important, and he's already suspicious of Narek, so he rolls with it. Picard, meanwhile, is almost paralysed with fear on the cube at first. Stewart is brilliant there, playing Picard as a frightened old man as he moves around after beaming in, shrinking into himself. After meeting up with Hugh, being shown that there is nothing to fear and that he can move beyond the past, he stands taller again. It's subtle, but it really works.

Soji meanwhile gets to spend pretty much the whole episode afraid. Afraid because what she's finding out about her life doesn't tally at all with her memories - everything she owns is only 37 months old, she falls asleep every time she has her mother on the comm link, each time she calls it only lasts 70 seconds, and she keeps having the same dream where she can't see her dad's face. Isa Briones is great, playing her confusion and determination to get to the bottom of it all. Unfortunately for Soji, she confides in Narek and while it does get her somewhere it's also very nearly fatal. Instead, the fear triggers the awakening of her abilities, she escapes...and there's Picard. Our retired admiral succeeds in something for once, finding the girl that he swore to save. Again Stewart is brilliant - Picard imploring her to come with him, desperate to save her. And so they get gone, with Hugh taking them to the long range transporter to get off the cube and away.

The rest of the team have their moments. Evan Evagora's Elnor gets some amusing scenes, clattering into other conversations with that doctrine of absolute candor before beaming over to the cube to save Picard. Alison Pill's Jurati is still massively conflicted, with everyone else putting her very clear discomfort down to Maddox having passed away due to his injuries. No mention of the EMH, so she either memory-wiped him or no-one has had to activate him since then. Santiago Cabrera is excellent as Rios, who I hope we get to explore the background of a bit more sometime. That line to Raffi about how "[n]o-one gets all of it right" ought to go places. And talking of Raffi, Michelle Hurd's performance was decent this week. Better material than in the last episode helped, I guess. She gets her **** together long enough to convince someone at Starfleet to sign off on credentials for Picard and then slides back into being blind drunk, but with some help from Rios and a strong coffee she's back in action by the end of the show.

Peyton List's Rizzo is still irritatingly one-dimensional, but looking at the preview for next week she might finally be about to get to do something other than snark or creepy incest vibes. And at least Harry Treadaway gets to do a bit more with Narek this time out. Was he trying to kill Soji at the end or trigger her awakening? After all, there's easier ways to kill someone than with a magic box full of red, radioactive gas. I suspect that one is going to run a bit yet.