Starting weight lifting again - help please :)

Depth · 6 Oct 2006 at 12:34

Deadly Ferret said:
Yes and no. Same person you're thinking of, and they do provide some cardiovascular benefit, but it isn't the reason I do it, which is to build a strong core. My main cardio is burpees.

My point about weightlifting being bad for the heart wasn't regarding weightlifers' diets or drug-taking. It's about the activity itself. Building muscle that way puts strain on the heart. Look at Arnie. Look at retired wrestlers and bodybuilders.

And what about boxers and other extremely fit athletes who wieght lift? I can't stand body building, but weight lifting and body building are not the same thing. Body builders are self obsessed and think only about how they look, which is why so many bb's are weak and unfit, despite their size. Arnie was a roider, most pro bb's roid, and most wrestlers roid. That has an effect on the heart.

Btw, doing hundreds of situps will make you good at doing hundreds of situps. To get a stronger core, you have to add resistance, or you're not getting any...stronger. Body weight exercise is weight lifting, just using your own mass as resistance. Why do you think gymnasts and break dancers look so strong?

Morba · 6 Oct 2006 at 20:19

S7yl3s said:
Good stuff you know you've done a good leg routine when you can't get off the toilet ...

... for the next 3 days

i was hurting until tuesday after my sunday leg workout!

Pigeon_Killer · 6 Oct 2006 at 20:52

I've not got a very good leg routine but I usually hurt for a day or two. This week I decided to try sumo squats :eek:

Klytus · 6 Oct 2006 at 22:33

Depth said:
To get a stronger core, you have to add resistance, or you're not getting any...stronger.

Utter Rubbish!

Your core [trunk] muscles consist of: internal obliques, transversus abdominus, multifidus, diaphragm and pelvic floor. All these muscles are deep (hence the term 'core') and are worked optimally with gentle contractions (20-30% of your max contraction/effort). Trying any harder i.e. adding weight, results in recruiting the superficial 'strength' muscles instead.

Also bog-standard sit-ups wont strengthen the core but twisting sit-ups/crunches can a little as there is more internal oblique involvement. However, to work your core optimally include exercises like abdominal vacuums or pilates.

sam83uk · 7 Oct 2006 at 00:03

full body routines are best 3 times a week, focusing on squats, deadlift and push/pull big lifts IMO

Styles · 7 Oct 2006 at 01:43

Morba said:
... for the next 3 days

i was hurting until tuesday after my sunday leg workout!

lol excellent stuff mate! I had a mate the other day who's legs were aching so much he decided to fall asleep on the loo cos it was easier than getting up :eek:

Thought that was a classic

Styles · 7 Oct 2006 at 01:47

sam83uk said:
full body routines are best 3 times a week, focusing on squats, deadlift and push/pull big lifts IMO

What would this routine be? i.e. what muscle groups on what days and what exercises?

Cheers

egt · 7 Oct 2006 at 08:37

Depth said:
I can't stand body building, but weight lifting and body building are not the same thing. Body builders are self obsessed and think only about how they look, which is why so many bb's are weak and unfit, despite their size. Arnie was a roider, most pro bb's roid, and most wrestlers roid. That has an effect on the heart.

I think that using drugs to gain size at the risk of ones long term health is crazy, but when you say you can't stand bodybuilders, do you mean anyone who bodybuilds?

Also, how do you work out that many bodybuilders are weak and unfit?

Not having a go at you, but could you elaborate on your comments?

alexakasloth · 7 Oct 2006 at 11:46

Morba said:
... for the next 3 days

i was hurting until tuesday after my sunday leg workout!

I just got back from mine, my leg's were trembling when I was putting my jeans back on. I think i'll be glued to this seat for the next few hours (days), so expect a lot of posts from me

red11 · 7 Oct 2006 at 12:01

$loth said:
I just got back from mine, my leg's were trembling when I was putting my jeans back on. I think i'll be glued to this seat for the next few hours (days), so expect a lot of posts from me

With all the talk in this thread about split routines, I've gone back to a 4 day split, did my shoulder/traps session yesterday and I couldn't raise my arms afterwards.

alexakasloth · 7 Oct 2006 at 12:05

But that means you can type if you can't lift your arms

Good luck with your training, to everyone

sam83uk · 7 Oct 2006 at 12:38

S7yl3s said:
What would this routine be? i.e. what muscle groups on what days and what exercises?

Cheers

All groups..

start with:
5 x (15,12,10,8,6) squats
3 x 8 stiff legged dealift
3 x 8 bench
2 sets of pullups to 1/2 reps below maximum
3 x 8 barbell rows
2 x military press

Depth · 7 Oct 2006 at 14:26

egt said:
I think that using drugs to gain size at the risk of ones long term health is crazy, but when you say you can't stand bodybuilders, do you mean anyone who bodybuilds?

Also, how do you work out that many bodybuilders are weak and unfit?

Not having a go at you, but could you elaborate on your comments?

I don't have a problem with the avarage guy who just wants to get bigger and to look good, it's more the completely self obsessed weirdo's at the top of the sport. And a lot of BB's aren't very strong (obviously some are, like ronnie Coleman, but he used to be a power lifter) compared to how they look, this if quite well known, especially as they aren't lifting for strength most of the time.

Depth · 7 Oct 2006 at 14:49

delbuenno said:
Utter Rubbish!

Your core [trunk] muscles consist of: internal obliques, transversus abdominus, multifidus, diaphragm and pelvic floor. All these muscles are deep (hence the term 'core') and are worked optimally with gentle contractions (20-30% of your max contraction/effort). Trying any harder i.e. adding weight, results in recruiting the superficial 'strength' muscles instead.

Also bog-standard sit-ups wont strengthen the core but twisting sit-ups/crunches can a little as there is more internal oblique involvement. However, to work your core optimally include exercises like abdominal vacuums or pilates.

Ok, would you mind telling me why olympic gymnasts do weighted sit ups, and weighted hanging leg raises please? They are known to have extremely strong core's, but according to you, have no idea how to train them!

This guy here, Mirko Filipovic, fights in MMA in a japanese organisation called pride. He is known to have incredibly powerful legs, back, and core muscles. He also has amazing stabilization and balance, to the point where a gold medalist Judoka was unable to throw him to the ground. He says he trains his core with weights, and various body weight exercises. So Im assuming your core would be stronger than his, seeing as he doesn't know what he is doing?

Klytus · 7 Oct 2006 at 18:19

Depth said:
Ok, would you mind telling me why olympic gymnasts do weighted sit ups, and weighted hanging leg raises please? They are known to have extremely strong core's, but according to you, have no idea how to train them!

This guy here, Mirko Filipovic, fights in MMA in a japanese organisation called pride. He is known to have incredibly powerful legs, back, and core muscles. He also has amazing stabilization and balance, to the point where a gold medalist Judoka was unable to throw him to the ground. He says he trains his core with weights, and various body weight exercises. So Im assuming your core would be stronger than his, seeing as he doesn't know what he is doing?

Doing weigfhted sit-ups and weighted hanging leg raises both work the superficial muscles optimally ie rectus abdominus and external obliques. Gymnasts need really strong rectus abdominus to be able to do disciplines such as the horse, parallel bars and the rings They may have great core muscles but not from doing those exercises.

Core muscles are deep, they do not produce much movement they only approximate the joints hence you can't train them maximally with sit-ups and the like. The superficial strength muscles ie the movement muscles do the opposite. I would suggest that they all have been trained/advised to contract their core muscles WHILST performing other exercises/aspects of their training regime.

Balance is more to do with something called proprioception and neuromuscular control, both of which are trained in an entirely different way. Its more core 'control' than core 'strength'

Depth · 7 Oct 2006 at 20:50

delbuenno said:
Doing weigfhted sit-ups and weighted hanging leg raises both work the superficial muscles optimally ie rectus abdominus and external obliques. Gymnasts need really strong rectus abdominus to be able to do disciplines such as the horse, parallel bars and the rings They may have great core muscles but not from doing those exercises.

Core muscles are deep, they do not produce much movement they only approximate the joints hence you can't train them maximally with sit-ups and the like. The superficial strength muscles ie the movement muscles do the opposite. I would suggest that they all have been trained/advised to contract their core muscles WHILST performing other exercises/aspects of their training regime.

Balance is more to do with something called proprioception and neuromuscular control, both of which are trained in an entirely different way. Its more core 'control' than core 'strength'

Ah I see, you obviously know your stuff, more than me anyway!

It's always good to be educated on a subject, cheers for the info

A2Z · 7 Oct 2006 at 21:39

sam83uk said:
full body routines are best 3 times a week, focusing on squats, deadlift and push/pull big lifts IMO

ive tried bill starr's full body routine...and it didnt work for me as well as 3/4 day splits do, so it really depends on what works for you individually, saying 1 routine is better then all others is BS

Styles · 8 Oct 2006 at 03:55

A2Z said:
ive tried bill starr's full body routine...and it didnt work for me as well as 3/4 day splits do, so it really depends on what works for you individually, saying 1 routine is better then all others is BS

Bodybuilding is a journey and that journey is different for everyone

Styles · 8 Oct 2006 at 04:02

sam83uk said:
All groups..

start with:
5 x (15,12,10,8,6) squats
3 x 8 stiff legged dealift
3 x 8 bench
2 sets of pullups to 1/2 reps below maximum
3 x 8 barbell rows
2 x military press

I'm a little confused? Is this all your routines put together?

I'm seeing a lot of people only training their front delts on here? Not hitting the shoulders anymore than that?

Styles · 10 Oct 2006 at 21:58

Where's your journal mate?