Starting weight lifting again - help please :)

Soldato
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Hey all!

I want to start weight lifting again this week but I need some people to go over a plan that i've got here (taken from muscletalk forums):

Chest/Shoulders/Tri

Dumbell Incline Bench - 5 sets 5 reps (very low incline)
Weighted Dips For Chest - 5 sets 5 reps
Seated Dumbell military press 5 sets 5 reps
close grip bench press - 5 sets 5 reps

Back/Trap/Bi

Deadlifts 5 sets 5 reps
Wide Grip Chins 5 sets 5 reps
dumbbell Rows 3 sets 5 reps
Barbell Bicep curl 5 sets 5 reps (Strict Form!!!)
Incline seated dumbell curls 3 sets 5 reps?

Legs & Abs

Barbell Squats 5x sets 5 reps
Stiff Legged Dead Lifts 5 sets 5 reps
Calf Raises 5 sets 5 reps (last set to fail)
crunches 4x sets 15 reps
lying leg raises 4x sets 12 reps (if you can do these resisted then even better.)
Dumbell side bends 3x sets 6-8 reps

There seems to be a lot of 5x5 on here, what would the benefits of this be? I started to do some weight lifting at the beggining of the year (for around 4 months) using GordyR's plan.

Is the abs plan over doing it? I thought that squats work your abs out a fair bit.

Another question is on the use of supplements, i've got some whey here, and some creatine on the way. Is it ok to mix these together to have PWO (with some oats)?

TIA :)
 
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Most big compounds will work your abs sufficiently but there is no harm in having a day where you work your abs specifically.

Also, on my back and bicep day I prefer to have just one bicep isolation exercise. I feel that deadlifts, rows and and pull ups work them enough.

Also you've got to have the standard barbbell bench press on chest day IMO.

I do Flat Barbbell Bench Press, Incline Dumbbell Press, Dips, Close Grip Bench Press and Standing Military Press.
 
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$loth said:
There seems to be a lot of 5x5 on here, what would the benefits of this be? I started to do some weight lifting at the beggining of the year (for around 4 months) using GordyR's plan.

Is the abs plan over doing it? I thought that squats work your abs out a fair bit.

Another question is on the use of supplements, i've got some whey here, and some creatine on the way. Is it ok to mix these together to have PWO (with some oats)?

TIA :)

Nothing magical about 5x5. IMO if you took 2 identical untrained people, put them on the same routine/diet etc, just with one doing 5x5 and one doing 3x10, you wouldn't see much difference for at least the first 6months-1year.

Persoanlly i feel my core is strong enough with squats/deadlifts/cleans etc to mean i don't need to do direct abs. Some feel differnetly.

Fine to mix creatine and whey for PWO.
 
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Hlebio said:
Most big compounds will work your abs sufficiently but there is no harm in having a day where you work your abs specifically.
I thought 3 ontop of squats would be over doing it, for me they seem to get worked enough with 2 ab workouts.
Also, on my back and bicep day I prefer to have just one bicep isolation exercise. I feel that deadlifts, rows and and pull ups work them enough.

That would make sense, thanks :)
Also you've got to have the standard barbbell bench press on chest day IMO.

And I can't belive I missed that :o

oddjob62 said:
Nothing magical about 5x5. IMO if you took 2 identical untrained people, put them on the same routine/diet etc, just with one doing 5x5 and one doing 3x10, you wouldn't see much difference for at least the first 6months-1year.

Persoanlly i feel my core is strong enough with squats/deadlifts/cleans etc to mean i don't need to do direct abs. Some feel differnetly.

Fine to mix creatine and whey for PWO.

I think i'll try 5x5 then, I find that doing more than 6 or 8 can feel like i'm doing too many reps.

Thanks for all the help. :)
 
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Chest/Shoulders/Tri

Right, First you want to be concentrating on the chest first, the shoulders, then triceps. This is an epic day and personally I believe that you should switch to a 4 day and train biceps and triceps on the same day. My Chest, shoulder, and tricep (added together) routine looks a little like this:

Chest

Incline Bench:
1 x 12
1 x 10
1 x 8

Bench:
1 x 12
1 x 10
1 x 8

Dumbell Flies:
3 x 12

Dumbell Bench Press
1 x 12
1 x 10
1 x 8

Shoulders:
Rear Lats:
3 x 12

Side Lats:
3 x 12

Military Press:
1 x 12
1 x 10
1 x 8

Dumbell Press
2 x 20 (To pump off)

Triceps
California Press S.S with Close grip Bench:
1 x 12
1 x 10
1 x 8

French Press:
1 x 12
1 x 10
1 x 8

Dips
2 to failure

Back routine looks a little like this.

Wide Grip Pull ups
4 sets to failure (won't naker you for deads)

Deadlifts
1 x 12
1 x 10
1 x 8
1 x 6

Bent rows:
1 x 12
1 x 10
1 x 8

T-bars:
1 x 12
1 x 10
1 x 8

Bicep added on would be:

Ez bar curls
1 x 12
1 x 10
1 x 8

hammer curls
1 x 12
1 x 10
1 x 8
Preacher Curls
1 x 12
1 x 10
1 x 8

concentration curls
2 x 10

Legs
Squats:
1 x 12
1 x 10
1 x 8
1 x 6

front squats:
1 x 12
1 x 10
1 x 8

SLDL:
1 x 12
1 x 10
1 x 8

Hamstring curls
1 x 12
1 x 10
1 x 8

Hindu squats :D
100 reps how many sets doesn't matter to get to 100

Sissy Squats:
1 set to open legs

Right now abs. You are doing too many sets here i believe. My ab routine is simple. do this 3 times a week. 2 x 20 crunches, and 2 x 20 leg raises. The crunches are weighted by putting a weight either across the TOP of your chest or on your forehead (i do this it's great) and the leg raises mean you lift your legs right off the floor and your bum is off the floor to at the furthest point up so that your feet are over your head. No messing about just working the hip flexors.

Calf raises are horrible. But have to be done. Again I do a basic calf raise routine with higher reps at the start so say 2 x 15, then 2 x 10 but keep perfect form.

Perfect form really is the key to this game. You can't go around ego lifting or messing about with your mates because you can lift more with rubbish form. If you can't get perfect form drop the weight till you can. Squats are a good case. I believe squats need to be ass to the grass most times, or if not possible parallel or go home and don't bother. Bench press is one I've seen a thousand times with people ego lifting. Down to the chest every rep.

With flies try squeezing your chest at the very top of the exercise. This is great for opening the chest and getting the blood pumping.

Deadlifts are paramount.People really never push themselves on these. For example, my little brother always did deads at around 230lbs (not much) but yesterday he was training and decided to give a little more weight a go and he did 6 perfect reps at 320lbs which is much better and now he knows he can up his weight for next time. If you can't get perfect form on deads then don't do ANY heavy weight until you can. not worth it.

Don't do side bends. These will only serve to make your waist thicker and will make your abdominal development look out of proportion and this really is unwanted.

I hope this helps in some way. I know i'm not directly answering your question but i'm just trying to give you a different view on routines so maybe you can take some tips or some of the exercises and use them for yourself.

I have been doing this a fair while now and routine is often scrutinized by Pro BB who I am lucky enough to have the assistance of. I think this is a great routine and as a beginner you will notice a huge huge gain in the first year.

As regards to eating. Get yourself a decent multivitamin. Some quality whey, if you can unflavored containing no sweeteners or added rubbish.

Carbs need to be up for bulking at the start. What is your height and bodyweight?

Yes that's fine mixing those up, adding oats makes you shake full of protein and quality carbs.

Right anyway I'm off, any questions just ask please. Hope this helps
 
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Soldato
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$loth said:
I think i'll try 5x5 then, I find that doing more than 6 or 8 can feel like i'm doing too many reps.

You do know that 8 to 12 reps are premium muscle building reps? That really is generally accepted.
 
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Thanks for the reply S7yl3s, I appreciate a different view.

I'm 5'8" and 145lb's, I believe my carbs intake is high, though I will up them more along with protein.

With regards to getting in good fats, will omega 3 tablets/ cod liver oil tablets help with this?

S7yl3s said:
You do know that 8 to 12 reps are premium muscle building reps? That really is generally accepted.

Not really, otherwise I wouldn't be asking ;)
 
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Soldato
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$loth said:
Thanks for the reply S7yl3s, I appreciate a different view.

I'm 5'8" and 145lb's, I believe my carbs intake is high, though I will up them more along with protein.

With regards to getting in good fats, will omega 3 tablets/ cod liver oil tablets help with this?

What would you consider your intake of the essentials to be:

Calories:
Protein:
Carbs:
Fat:

Good fats are essential. To be honest yes these are ok, Cod liver oil is excellent in my opinion. Get yourself some Flax oil. 4.75g of fat per serving and it's all good stuff. Have you considered making a diet plan with everything you eat and all the nutrient details from that food? This is absolutely paramount i believe in the first few weeks to get an idea where you are with your diet. Diet is 80% of your results.
 
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I've got a small book here where I plan to keep a record of my diet over the next few weeks.

What would you consider your intake of the essentials to be:

Calories:
Protein:
Carbs:
Fat:

For these I am unsure, and that is what I will be working on, but my general day to day eating will consist of:

Breakfast: Museli, and maybe some yogurt.
Lunch: Sandwhich, a meat/fish with salad.
Dinner: Half of the week it's pasta.

I snack on fruit, or make another sandwhich throughout the day.
 
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$loth said:
I've got a small book here where I plan to keep a record of my diet over the next few weeks.



For these I am unsure, and that is what I will be working on, but my general day to day eating will consist of:

Breakfast: Museli, and maybe some yogurt.
Lunch: Sandwhich, a meat/fish with salad.
Dinner: Half of the week it's pasta.

I snack on fruit, or make another sandwhich throughout the day.

your going to need to move to atleast a 4 meal diet, probably 5 if you really want to make some good gains.
 
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Definitely going to need more there. As Morba has said you need to be eating more. I work on a 6 meal a day routine where you split things down and eat this throughout the day.

Protein needs to be consumed ever 2 to 2.5 hours.

Your protein intake will be near enough 300g a day if you're really serious about this.
 
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Morba said:
tbh its more 6-12

6-12 - building


however people adopt the 5x5 program without really doing any reading on it.

Fair play. I can't really aim criticism at that at all as for the past few months I have been finishing on 6 reps and it's served me very well. Just upped to 8 recently.

I agree with the 5 x 5. I don't think it's near one of the best but it's so widely and well publicized that people just use it.
 
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the biggest issue with 5x5 for me, is that new people start doing it, which if you dont know what you can do for 5x5 then you end up wasting sets upping the weights, or end up on the 5th set dropping weight because you put too much on, or you only 4 reps, or 3 clean and 2 crap reps for example.

once you know what you can achieve then 5x5 starts to work excellently.

i tend to mix the reps for my routines, eg military press ill do sets of 6, but dumbell presses ill do 8 / flat barbell 5/6 then incline dumbell sets of 8 and decline barbell sets of 10 (tho thats more from a safety point of view as i train on my own :/ )

its all about finding whats best for you at that time and knowing when to change things, which you do as youve changed to 8s for a while :D
 
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Morba said:
its all about finding whats best for you at that time and knowing when to change things, which you do as youve changed to 8s for a while :D

You've hit the nail on the head there mate. Bodybuilding / weightlifting is a journey and everyone has their own path. It's just finding that path that's difficult at the start.
 
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Morba said:
your going to need to move to atleast a 4 meal diet, probably 5 if you really want to make some good gains.

Of course, but right now i'm not bulking as I need a gym plan first ;)

In between the main 3 meals, what sort of size should I make the other 2? In terms of calories, how many should I be aiming for, I've heard some say 3000, some say 3500.
 
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$loth said:
In between the main 3 meals, what sort of size should I make the other 2? In terms of calories, how many should I be aiming for, I've heard some say 3000, some say 3500.

Cannot say. Everyone is different. Start at 3000 and if you're not gaining up by 500 cals or vice versa. If you up and still nothing then up by 500 again. It's trial and error at the start tbh as everyone is different.
 
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S7yl3s said:
One more point. Please stretch properly. This is essential to BB. Cheers

I noticed last time around, it's something that I do along with a warm up everytime. It's shocking some of the people I see just going straight onto the benches from the changing rooms :eek:
 
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