Steam prices! Grey key sites! and the I love/hate developers thread - Enter if you dare!

[Musty Pie]

OK guys!

I didn't really want to start another thread on this, but in order to keep the "PC Gaming Deals" thread clean and on topic I am doing this so that the people who wish to continue to discuss this topic have a place to do so.

For those who don't know, and don't wish to re-read another thread this topic was started when a copy of the new Tomb Raider game for PC was available through a loophole in the windows 10 Store.

People could purchase the game for under £7 which was accepted by many as being a good deal, yet frowned upon by others.

Examples below:

I honestly think grey market key sellers should be banned from this thread and this entire forum.

Everybody that buys a key from these places is screwing over the guys who made the game.

And also potentially receiving goods acquired with stolen cards, etc.

I honestly don't know why OcUK allows it.

Do you have any research to back this up? A digital game is not going to have high distribution cost, so selling 1 million copies at £5 each is surely better than selling 100,000 copies at £20 each...

They are just codes, so the more they sell the better and the lower the price the better they sell. It isnt like they are selling anyting at a "loss" in a traditional sense.

I don't feel in one bit bad for buying Tomb Raider for £6.70 from Microsoft, because that is all it was worth to me. I would have just waited 6 months until it was that price and bought it then. I would never have paid full price for it.

If anything, they get the money i was willing to pay earlier, and i get the game earlier. Win win.

In fact, i will very, very rarely buy a game at full price/on release anymore as within months they are always siginifcantly cheaper.

Besides, the army of people who like to have their trousers pulled down by Steam release prices always seems quite large so they always have them

In short some people feel that buying keys on the "grey market" and via loopholes like the above they are not showing love to the developers of the games, and thus ruining the gaming industry!

So have it out ladies.

Do you think buying at the best price through sites like G2A and CDkeys etc. is upsetting the balance?

Do you feel that buying at full RRP is the only way to give back to the Devs/industry?

Lets see what the general opinions here are! Also if anyone has any factual info on how digital game distribution works in situations like this (in terms of who gets a cut of what etc?) that info would also be welcomed.

 

[mid_gen]

Well, it's not an incentive to release games on PC, that's for sure. Not only do you give Valve 30%, but a good chunk of them are going to be grey market at a fraction of the RRP to begin with as well.

People wonder why EA/Ubisoft etc are pushing their own platforms....

But anyway, a sale is a sale, it's better than piracy.

 

[Mynight]

Simple solution sell your own keys on grey platforms...

The way I see it is its just like the movie industry instead of adopting and supporting the new platforms that come around they drag their heels and whinge. Only hurting themselves in the long run.

 

[Nate75]

Well, it's not an incentive to release games on PC, that's for sure. Not only do you give Valve 30%, but a good chunk of them are going to be grey market at a fraction of the RRP to begin with as well.

People wonder why EA/Ubisoft etc are pushing their own platforms....

But anyway, a sale is a sale, it's better than piracy.

IMO Steam was the antidote of piracy. I think sometimes people forget this.

 

[Musty Pie]

But we are not talking piracy here are we?

We are mainly discussing shopping about for best prices, and how this effects the Devs!

 

[Nate75]

But we are not talking piracy here are we?

We are mainly discussing shopping about for best prices, and how this effects the Devs!

I realised just after I posted I was off topic...


I don't see that paying for a key from whichever source harms the dev's.

As mentioned above a sale is a sale and if your product is worth buying, it will be bought.

 

[Dave85]

I will happily buy off cd key sites knowing that at least at some point the dev got some money. Plus I cant be bothered with all the piracy hassle anymore.

Paying full price just because you feel bad for the dev is just crazy and a waste of money

 

[Jolteh]

I think they're fine. I buy almost all my games either grey market or on sale.

When you've got developers putting RRPs of like £50 on games you can be sure that people will grey market/proxy to get a better deal. Frankly they're lucky that I don't just torrent it or something.

 

[mid_gen]

IMO Steam was the antidote of piracy. I think sometimes people forget this.

Piracy is still very much rife in the PC world. Although Denuvo is changing things.

 

[Nate75]

Piracy is still very much rife in the PC world. Although Denuvo is changing things.

That's pretty impressive tbf. However I have always been of the opinion that everything can be broken.

One way or the other.


I digress. I truley believe that the dev's are better off with the key sites.

Money changes hands and with "ninja drm" like Steam the money will end up where it belongs.

 

[cheesyboy]

Keys are sold at lower value in some territories (Russia etc) because to sell for European or North American prices would mean no-one would buy and everyone would pirate. Ultimately, publishers would rather get less per sale this way, than get so few sales at full price.

When you buy one of these grey-market keys, which tend to originate in the budget-tier countries, the publisher/dev's get less than if you bought a legit key.

That doesn't necessarily mean things are worse overall for publishers/devs. If they thought this strategy was costing them money, they would simply stop selling at a discount, or stop selling altogether (due to localisation costs), in the budget territories.

Also, a discount sale doesn't always replace a full-price sale. I would never pay full AAA price for a game, as it's simply not worth that much to me against older games I can get cheaper, or indie games which I tend to prefer anyway. I might pay £10 for a new game if it were something I really wanted. That's a sale gained.

Other gained sales are from game 'collectors' who buy far more games than they will ever play. Spreading their gaming spend among more titles, perhaps, so there will be winners and losers, but probably an increase in spend overall.

IMO get the best deals and let the market respond if such practices are causing hurt somewhere. If you want to support a small studio whose game you loved after getting it super-cheap, then buy another copy and give it to a friend. The big-boys can look after themselves.

 

[ColdAsIce]

I don't usually begrudge anyone finding a bargain but Publishers are trying their best to make games affordable in countries rife with piracy (Poland, Russia, Ukraine) Most of the Eastern Block.

The prices are far lower because their wages are a fraction of what we can earn in the UK etc.

The Tomb Raider port is rock solid, it looks stunning on the PC with lots of customisable gfx settings. The game is good value for money (imo) and we only benefit PC gaming by showing strong sales. If too many use these loop holes then it just gives publishers/developers an excuse to focus more heavily on the consoles.

I also thought it was pretty shameful the fella boasting about his 980ti but buying the game for £6 :/

 

[mid_gen]

I suspect a lot of publishers would like Valve to do something about grey market key sites. Not being able to know if you're going to sell your product at RRP on launch is a pain in the ass.

Problem is though, Valve controls the market at present and can just tell them to go whistle.

 

[Nate75]

I suspect a lot of publishers would like Valve to do something about grey market key sites. Not being able to know if you're going to sell your product at RRP on launch is a pain in the ass.

Problem is though, Valve controls the market at present and can just tell them to go whistle.

RRP's are set by the company themselves.

It's the same as any other market.

 

[Boycey0211]

Key sites sell cheap keys because they take advantage of regional pricing.

Have a look here:

https://www.steamprices.com/uk/app/359550/tom-clancys-rainbow-six-siege

Game is £40 if you buy it in the UK, £22.60 if you live in Ukraine and £17.50 if you happen to be Russian.

This is pretty much across the board, key sites don't cheat the system, they just buy large quantities of keys that aren't region locked at local prices then resell them. I bought R6 Siege from a key site for £23, so assuming the key site bought the key at 17.50 they made £5 profit for nothing but reselling and steam got the price they were demanding in the first place.

I don't want to con devs out of money, but regional pricing to that extent is wrong. It also harms their sales as I deliberately went out of my way to find it cheaper. Had it been on steam for £26, thay would have made a £10 markup and I would have bought it direct from steam.

 

[Nate75]

Key sites sell cheap keys because they take advantage of regional pricing.

Have a look here:

https://www.steamprices.com/uk/app/359550/tom-clancys-rainbow-six-siege

Game is £40 if you buy it in the UK, £22.60 if you live in Ukraine and £17.50 if you happen to be Russian.

This is pretty much across the board, key sites don't cheat the system, they just buy large quantities of keys that aren't region locked at local prices then resell them. I bought R6 Siege from a key site for £23, so assuming the key site bought the key at 17.50 they made £5 profit for nothing but reselling and steam got the price they were demanding in the first place.

I don't want to con devs out of money, but regional pricing to that extent is wrong. It also harms their sales as I deliberately went out of my way to find it cheaper. Had it been on steam for £26, thay would have made a £10 markup and I would have bought it direct from steam.

All I am reading there is you bought a game, and that money changed hands.

I am failing to see the problem however I could be wrong I guess?

 

[Twirlywoos]

Vote to ban those who derailed the PC Gaming deals thread.

As for the Tomb Raider deal and even the Amazon Witcher 3 deal then those were merely misprices and bugs which allowed people to get the game cheap for a brief period of time. That is completely different to Grey Market key sellers.

Now my question is can Amazon and Microsoft revoke those keys later down the line and offer refunds?

Obtaining ROW keys through Grey market or even VPN is a loop hole. Steam put an end to it by making certain countries region locked and I expect publishers like Origin will do the same for India, Brazil, Mexico & Singapore.

When and if this happens then Grey Market sellers like CD Keys, G2A will become obsolete but until then I will enjoy "affordable" games which I would have never have bought if it weren't for those e-tailers.

The Division Gold edition is around £65. Go through Nuuvem then it's around £25/8. Massive difference!!

Digital gaming was meant to cut out the middle man and we as the end consumer were meant to see cost savings, but honestly saving a couple of quid is taking the ****. What has happened in my mind is that we only see a slice of it since money goes towards content creators, Ronku, VIP trips, Lunches and increasing the PR budget.

 

[mid_gen]

RRP's are set by the company themselves.

It's the same as any other market.

Erm, yes?

Point is that you can put your game up for sale in the UK steam store for 30 GBP, but actually a huge chunk of UK customers only pays the 15 GBP you charge in Russia.

 

[Nate75]

Erm, yes?

Point is that you can put your game up for sale in the UK steam store for 30 GBP, but actually a huge chunk of UK customers only pays the 15 GBP you charge in Russia.

Again I will mention that that is £15 that the customer would not have paid perhaps.

Think about it.

 

[Boycey0211]

All I am reading there is you bought a game, and that money changed hands.

I am failing to see the problem however I could be wrong I guess?

Well yeah there is no problem, if it was illegal then Valve would be all over the companies that do it.

But my point is I would happily use a legal/slightly grey key site because charging a regional price difference that big for digital goods is wrong.

Money did change hands, the dev got what they were charging in that country so they aren't down, and I've got a legit non stolen key.

Therefore I can't see any issue with these sites, want to stop me using them? have worldwide pricing equal. If it was on steam for even a more competative price I would have bought it there, same goes for many of my games.