Steam prices! Grey key sites! and the I love/hate developers thread - Enter if you dare!
- Thread starter Musty Pie
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I will have to mention that many of the people buying grey market keys are people that would have bought the game at the UK price if there wasn't a grey market.
Think about it.
Soldato
Just to reinforce that aswell, couple of people have been talking about XCOM 2, I played the originals to death and love the series so thought I'd do a quick search.
XCOM® 2
Game • Release: 4th February 2016 • Genre: Strategy
£ 34.99
₽ 1499 (£ 13.13, -62.47%) (Russia)
US$ 29.99 (£ 20.66, ₴ 527.79, -40.95%) (Ukraine)
Key site it is then.
e: CJS want £25 for it, so they make a minimum of £5 immediately and:
XCOM® 2
Game • Release: 4th February 2016 • Genre: Strategy
£ 34.99
₽ 1499 (£ 13.13, -62.47%) (Russia)
US$ 29.99 (£ 20.66, ₴ 527.79, -40.95%) (Ukraine)
Key site it is then.
e: CJS want £25 for it, so they make a minimum of £5 immediately and:
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I'm not sure that is true.
I don't wish to clash ideals, but that is my opinion.
And as you have an opinion, so do I.
I buy bundles and the odd cheap game. Mostly from bundle stars. These are of course steam keys packaged and sold on by, well steam and the devs through the shop front.
I also pay full price and even have pre orders (three games now) however the pre order on two of these games had either money off or extra's. I do not buy a great deal of games. I have bought 1 since April of last year (Elite Horizons) that because I got the discount, I have however had refunds on two games. City skylines and kerbal space program. The fact I can now try the full game and get a refund within the 2 hour played window is genius. I now know I can get a game without the risk of not being able to play, waiting for a cheap key to come along or buying from the grey market. Then should I like it.... Buy it.
I also pay full price and even have pre orders (three games now) however the pre order on two of these games had either money off or extra's. I do not buy a great deal of games. I have bought 1 since April of last year (Elite Horizons) that because I got the discount, I have however had refunds on two games. City skylines and kerbal space program. The fact I can now try the full game and get a refund within the 2 hour played window is genius. I now know I can get a game without the risk of not being able to play, waiting for a cheap key to come along or buying from the grey market. Then should I like it.... Buy it.
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I can't stand the price that many publishers place on new releases, especially when they are often buggy, iterative cash cows of games.
I haven't bought a new AAA release for years now, I tend to be far more selective and wait for big discounts rather than uses keysites.
As to whether those sites hurt the devs, maybe so, but I honestly think that the publishers do the most damage by rushing releases, cutting features and compromising the developers vision for the games.
I haven't bought a new AAA release for years now, I tend to be far more selective and wait for big discounts rather than uses keysites.
As to whether those sites hurt the devs, maybe so, but I honestly think that the publishers do the most damage by rushing releases, cutting features and compromising the developers vision for the games.
Soldato
But I wouldnt though, I shopped around using ebay, amazon etc because I wasn't prepared to pay 49.99 for R6. Same with star wars battlefront, £60 for a multiplayer game just isn't right, got a fully legal copy for £30 instead.
Well, it is undoubtedly true, it is the degree to which either of these truths represents total sales that is the question.
I'm not involved in the numbers but I do know that 'PC revenues being impacted by the prevelance of key sites' is a topic of conversation.
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With major publishers and AAA titles these are usually multinational companies happy to take advantage of the global economy either through farming out work to places where the labour pool is cheaper/setup in countries/areas with significant tax breaks for doing so, like various Canadian cities. Begrudging consumers taking advantage of the same benefits the same thing doesn't really seem fair.
I think the games industry as whole is unlikely to be losing out as I imagine its allowing most gamers to buy more games rather than spending that saving elsewhere. I imagine the biggest loser in this is actually the governments where the consumer is based from tax loss, I would be frankly surprised if checking the 20% tax option on grey sites is done by many and even more surprised if that money ends up going to the relevant countries tax collectors (happy to be proved wrong on those though), legitimising and applying a digital import tax would be difficult I imagine but the sensible way to go.
With indie games I can see a better argument for it but indie games are also usually much lower priced to start with and the savings from grey market sites lower.
I think the games industry as whole is unlikely to be losing out as I imagine its allowing most gamers to buy more games rather than spending that saving elsewhere. I imagine the biggest loser in this is actually the governments where the consumer is based from tax loss, I would be frankly surprised if checking the 20% tax option on grey sites is done by many and even more surprised if that money ends up going to the relevant countries tax collectors (happy to be proved wrong on those though), legitimising and applying a digital import tax would be difficult I imagine but the sensible way to go.
With indie games I can see a better argument for it but indie games are also usually much lower priced to start with and the savings from grey market sites lower.
That's actually an interesting thought tbf.
I did for most the part buy games on Steam and other platforms and still do to an extent pay full price. But at the same time seeing the price constantly going ever higher on steam is off putting. I don't really have any issues with grey market sites. I mean I brought Fallout 4 + the season pass off grey market and it still worked out cheaper then the Steam price for the base game alone.
In a way I think they capture sales from people who may not be willing to pony up the steam prices, but happy with grey market priced for titles they may feel on the fence about. If it turns out to be a good experience, we could see them go on and subsequently buy the DLC / Expansions constantly being churned out.
In a way I think they capture sales from people who may not be willing to pony up the steam prices, but happy with grey market priced for titles they may feel on the fence about. If it turns out to be a good experience, we could see them go on and subsequently buy the DLC / Expansions constantly being churned out.
Whilst we're taking quotes from the other thread, let me bring a couple too.
And this chap has a 980ti. Now obviously if you agree with his stance then this thread is wasted on you completely.
In a way, this problem is likely to be self-correcting. If enough of us here in the West buy keys from BRICS countries, so that overall income is lowered, they will push up prices in BRICS countries.
What happens in BRICS countries is that if you have Western game prices, very few can afford to buy games, and piracy is/becomes again the norm in those countries.
If publishers know that increased profits in the West will offset piracy in BRICS, then look forward to BRICS prices rising towards our own.
Why is it fair to have regional pricing? Because our earning power is very different to that of the BRICS countries. Here's a summary:
Our average wage is:
70% more than Russia
350% more than Brazil
400% more than in China
900% more than India.
So if a game in Russia is £20, we can absolutely justify paying £35 in the UK.
Let's face it, how many of you would go into Tesco (or Waitrose, whatever) and demand Indian prices for your food?
Or go to the estate agents and demand Scandinavian prices for your homes?
We have so much more disposable income, that we can afford to pay the devs more. Don't think about it as being ripped off.
Think about it as an investment. If you support fully the devs creating the games you enjoy, they are more likely to be able to release high quality games in future.
We all know what happens if everybody pirates. Well we should also be able to predict what happens if everybody pays pennies for their games. It's not so different.
Lastly, nobody is asking anybody to pay the non-sale full Steam price. It's the more expensive place there is. Often games that are years old, and £10-£15 everywhere else, will still be £30 on Steam. Just don't buy from Steam outside of a sale!
There are plenty of authorised resellers. Places such as:
GamersGate
GreenManGaming
GameFly (formerly Direct2Drive)
GetGamesGo
GamesPlanet
etc, etc, etc.
And this chap has a 980ti. Now obviously if you agree with his stance then this thread is wasted on you completely.
In a way, this problem is likely to be self-correcting. If enough of us here in the West buy keys from BRICS countries, so that overall income is lowered, they will push up prices in BRICS countries.
What happens in BRICS countries is that if you have Western game prices, very few can afford to buy games, and piracy is/becomes again the norm in those countries.
If publishers know that increased profits in the West will offset piracy in BRICS, then look forward to BRICS prices rising towards our own.
Why is it fair to have regional pricing? Because our earning power is very different to that of the BRICS countries. Here's a summary:
Our average wage is:
70% more than Russia
350% more than Brazil
400% more than in China
900% more than India.
So if a game in Russia is £20, we can absolutely justify paying £35 in the UK.
Let's face it, how many of you would go into Tesco (or Waitrose, whatever) and demand Indian prices for your food?
Or go to the estate agents and demand Scandinavian prices for your homes?
We have so much more disposable income, that we can afford to pay the devs more. Don't think about it as being ripped off.
Think about it as an investment. If you support fully the devs creating the games you enjoy, they are more likely to be able to release high quality games in future.
We all know what happens if everybody pirates. Well we should also be able to predict what happens if everybody pays pennies for their games. It's not so different.
Lastly, nobody is asking anybody to pay the non-sale full Steam price. It's the more expensive place there is. Often games that are years old, and £10-£15 everywhere else, will still be £30 on Steam. Just don't buy from Steam outside of a sale!
There are plenty of authorised resellers. Places such as:
GamersGate
GreenManGaming
GameFly (formerly Direct2Drive)
GetGamesGo
GamesPlanet
etc, etc, etc.
the big key sites are all offshore in places like Hong Kong, no way they are sourcing UK keys.
I know, that is my point. I was asking if those against this sort of thing are so prudent with everything they buy.
if game company's insist on regional pricing then i'm happy to take advantage of it as they are with trying to charge higher prices for regions with a higher wage.
And like I said, do you check out the prices of bread, cheese and other commodities in India or China or Brazil, then refuse to pay UK prices for those?
Do you have Sky TV or Sky Sports? Have you written to Sky saying you will only pay the same amount it costs in China to watch the sport? (Hint, it's a lot less than we pay).
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Soldato
IMO, ultimately it's us as gamers who lose out.
If the revenue that games generate drops, it simply means we'll end up with "cheaper" games.
No developer/publisher is going to spend £X million developing a game if 90% of the copies are bought on key sites for pennies and the game only generates £0.5X million.
Nice strawman. The argument has no relevance with relation to physical items which incur transportation costs etc.
Besides, there's nothing stopping you from jumping on a plane to India and buying things for local prices if you're really that desperate.
If the revenue that games generate drops, it simply means we'll end up with "cheaper" games.
No developer/publisher is going to spend £X million developing a game if 90% of the copies are bought on key sites for pennies and the game only generates £0.5X million.
Nice strawman. The argument has no relevance with relation to physical items which incur transportation costs etc.
Besides, there's nothing stopping you from jumping on a plane to India and buying things for local prices if you're really that desperate.
This. If i find something that i can order significantly cheaper online from another country i will do just that.
What next, are we supposed to feel guilty for buying cheap things when on holiday because our national average wage is bigger
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