Steam prices! Grey key sites! and the I love/hate developers thread - Enter if you dare!

[Boycey0211]

I think your issues is with people taking from poorer countries the offers made to them by retailers.... Which is fair comment. Can someone post the prices for some games available in the regions we are talking about? because I am sure they are not that much cheaper in those countries. Interested to know. Genuinely interested in retail prices....

METAL GEAR SOLID V: THE PHANTOM PAIN
Game • Release: 31st August 2015 • Genre: Action, Adventure
£ 45.99
₽ 1399 (£ 12.45, -72.93%) Russia
US$ 29.99 (£ 20.50, ₴ 514.94, -55.43%) Ukraine

XCOM® 2
Game • Release: 4th February 2016 • Genre: Strategy
£ 34.99
₽ 1499 (£ 13.34, -61.87%)
US$ 29.99 (£ 20.50, ₴ 514.94, -41.41%)

Tom Clancy’s The Division™
Game • Release: 8th March 2016 • Genre: Action, Adventure, RPG
£ 39.99
₽ 1999 (£ 17.79, -55.51%)
US$ 37.02 (£ 25.30, ₴ 635.64, -36.73%)

 

[Jono8]

I think your issues is with people taking from poorer countries the offers made to them by retailers.... Which is fair comment. Can someone post the prices for some games available in the regions we are talking about? because I am sure they are not that much cheaper in those countries. Interested to know. Genuinely interested in retail prices....

People always buy things from foreign countries either when abroad or online. If I can source something cheaper abroad and it is just as safe and convenient to get it delivered here I will.

 

[Jono8]

But you don't know how much nV paid Konami for the codes And neither do I.

Well it isn't going to be anywhere near the UK retail price is it!

 

[StrongSad]

METAL GEAR SOLID V: THE PHANTOM PAIN
Game • Release: 31st August 2015 • Genre: Action, Adventure
£ 45.99
₽ 1399 (£ 12.45, -72.93%) Russia
US$ 29.99 (£ 20.50, ₴ 514.94, -55.43%) Ukraine

XCOM® 2
Game • Release: 4th February 2016 • Genre: Strategy
£ 34.99
₽ 1499 (£ 13.34, -61.87%)
US$ 29.99 (£ 20.50, ₴ 514.94, -41.41%)

Tom Clancy’s The Division™
Game • Release: 8th March 2016 • Genre: Action, Adventure, RPG
£ 39.99
₽ 1999 (£ 17.79, -55.51%)
US$ 37.02 (£ 25.30, ₴ 635.64, -36.73%)

Edit: Cheers for that

I think Russia and the Ukraine are anomalies and recognised by steam to be so... Russian codes are region locked by steam...
I was thinking Brazil and India?

 

[neoglow]

I think something we are all missing here is who the largest group of game players/buyers is.

Id guess the largest slice of the pie is the younger generation that tell their mates there is a stonking deal on HdUK so they can get the new Tomb Raider for a weeks pocket money thanks to a loophole. The same can be said for these grey market sites and vpn purchasing on the tinterwebz where the prices are sometimes enormously lower than 'legit sources'!

Having said that, as a mid 30's male paying a mortgage and doing the day job, I too am looking for ways to save money. Id class myself as young I guess
Hence I will buy from places where there is a few quid to be saved. The same way Id phone Sky and threaten to leave and get a better deal! Im still getting the Sky service but cheaper. (I know this is a very different example but you get my point)

The only exception is if the game ticks all my boxes, and I mean all the boxes then I would actually pay full price to support the dev. Examples would be Alien Isolation as I love that game and followed its development till release, the other is Project Cars, unfortunately I missed the WMD early backer program but in some ways I was not that fussed at release as the game didnt turn out the way I hoped, even though I sunk 40 odd quid in a pre-order. Im hanging on to a little faith for PCars 2 so I have backed already, therefore supporting the dev.

Other than the generation argument you can also blame modern technology, remember the days when you had to buy physical games from your local games store?! The internet expanded at a ridiculous rate and now information is so accessible I can buy a cheap game from a grey market site on my phone sat in the staff canteen at work. Install when I get home.

BAN TO INTERNET!

 

[TheVoice]

Therefore I can't see any issue with these sites, want to stop me using them? have worldwide pricing equal. If it was on steam for even a more competative price I would have bought it there, same goes for many of my games.

Why should prices be equal? Income isn't equal, taxes aren't equal, costs of living aren't equal. Games are a luxury item, they're not obliged to make them affordable for the masses.

In your opinion. I am of the opinion that they have got money from people that would have never have bought the game for the full uk price.

Money for what is just a code. For digital distribution, surely any money is better than no money.

As i wrote in my other post. Better to sell a million codes at £5 a pop than 100,00 codes at £20.

Aside from the obvious flaw in your numbers, this must be a new phenomenon because before the surge in popularity of CD key sellers, most people were seemingly quite happy to pay full price for games.

You're also missing the fact that the more price-sensitive customers can just wait until the price naturally falls within their market to what they can or are willing to pay. Instead, the presence of the grey market means that those who would otherwise have paid full price now have the option to pay half that, which affects full-price sales and therefore launch window and overall revenue.

 

[Boycey0211]

Edit: Cheers for that

I think Russia and the Ukraine are anomalies and recognised by steam to be so... Russian codes are region locked by steam...
I was thinking Brazil and India?

METAL GEAR SOLID V: THE PHANTOM PAIN
Game • Release: 31st August 2015 • Genre: Action, Adventure
£ 45.99
R$ 199.99 (£ 35.23, -23.40%) Brazil
₹ 3923 (£ 39.61, -13.87%) India

XCOM® 2
Game • Release: 4th February 2016 • Genre: Strategy
£ 34.99
R$ 99.90 (£ 17.60, -49.70%)
₹ 2999 (£ 30.28, -13.46%)

Tom Clancy’s The Division™
Game • Release: 8th March 2016 • Genre: Action, Adventure, RPG
£ 39.99
R$ 129.99 (£ 22.90, -42.74%)
₹ 1799 (£ 18.16, -54.59%)

 

[FrenchTart]

People keep on talking about grey market stuff as though it's a new concept

Yes, it's a lot easier and presumably more prevalent with digital distribution but it has existed for years - imported games, DVDs, etc.

The developers are getting some money from the sale and the fact that their game has so many purchases (even ones that aren't at full price) means that the game is regarded as more of a success and as such publishers are more likely to pick them up in future. There's also the healthier online player numbers from the additional purchases.

It's understandable that businesses will choose a price that the market in any particular locale will bear but there's absolutely nothing immoral about a customer choosing to go where the price is best for the product.

 

[Jono8]

Why should prices be equal? Income isn't equal, taxes aren't equal, costs of living aren't equal. Games are a luxury item, they're not obliged to make them affordable for the masses.



Aside from the obvious flaw in your numbers, this must be a new phenomenon because before the surge in popularity of CD key sellers, most people were seemingly quite happy to pay full price for games.

What flaw (apart from the typo "100,000")?

 

[Jono8]

Why should prices be equal? Income isn't equal, taxes aren't equal, costs of living aren't equal. Games are a luxury item, they're not obliged to make them affordable for the masses.

I am sorry but this point just blows up the whole argument against this sort of thing..

"they're not obliged to make them affordable for the masses. "

So you admit that they are ripping westerners off big time them because that is seemingly exactly what they are doing for poorer markets (making them affordable) if the uk price is a fair price. If games are such a luxury as you suggest, why are they sold cheaper in Russia/Ukraine?

They are either making them affordable for the poorer masses or over inflating the prices for people in rich developed countries.

What you have said right there just seems to say the opposite of what you were hoping I think...

 

[VincentHanna]

They aren't ripping us off, per se

Game costs X amount to develop

Publisher needs to recoup development costs & make profit.

They look at the various territories and assess a reasonable price that people will be willing to pay.

Poorer countries have a lower rrp, adjusted to the average earnings

Richer countries have a higher rrp also adjusted to account for average earnings.

Not many Indians are going to buy a £35 game, but people in the UK will generally not have an issue being able to afford it

The publisher can't sell it everywhere at the lower rrp as they won't make a profit and commision the developer to make more games in future.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

What I find funny is that people think they are supporting the developer when they buy an overpriced game.

There are very few independent developers thesedays and most are owned by publishers.

Developers don't stump up the money to make a game they are paid by publishers to make a game and depending on sales/ratings they might get a bonus.

A third of the cost you pay goes to the retailer, almost half goes to the publisher to recoup development costs, marketing budgets, etc..

I'm pretty sure they would prefer people to buy legitimate keys than not buy the game at all and wait for something like sales.

Steam even has a feature in the backend that allows publishers to generate keys by the thousand for free so they can resell them on these grey market websites. Any key that isn't region locked more than likely comes from steam itself.

Some of the grey market websites act like a marketplace like Amazon or ebay where people can list their own keys for sale, this is where a lot of the less than legit keys can come from.

 

[Jono8]

Another thing I meant to add was that generally I take whether a game is region locked or not as an indication of whether the publisher cares about this sort of thing. if they did, it is easy to clamp down on by releasing region locked keys ( like a lot of games are from Russia etc).

If it is global/region free, I see no issue.

 

[mid_gen]

The developers are getting some money from the sale and the fact that their game has so many purchases (even ones that aren't at full price) means that the game is regarded as more of a success and as such publishers are more likely to pick them up in future. There's also the healthier online player numbers from the additional purchases.

I've no problem with grey market buyers, but you cannot seriously try and spin it so that you're doing the developers a favour by buying a discounted copy that was sold in Russia or wherever.

 

[FrenchTart]

I've no problem with grey market buyers, but you cannot seriously try and spin it so that you're doing the developers a favour by buying a discounted copy that was sold in Russia or wherever.

Compared to the other two options, you are:

1) Not buying it.

2) Pirating it.

Both of those involve zero profit for the publisher/dev, no increase in sales numbers and no increase in the online community for games where that matters.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

I've no problem with grey market buyers, but you cannot seriously try and spin it so that you're doing the developers a favour by buying a discounted copy that was sold in Russia or wherever.

It's a key generated by the publisher themselves, unless it is stolen or from one of them vouchers you get with graphics card a sale is a sale. The developer doesn't benefit one iota if the key was sold for £4 or £40, they were already paid to make the game, what does benefit them is if the game is highly rated in reviews or it hits the sales target set by the publisher as number of copies sold. Some publishers give bonuses for games that get over 90% rating on metacritic for example.

 

[mid_gen]

It's a key generated by the publisher themselves, unless it is stolen or from one of them vouchers you get with graphics card a sale is a sale. The developer doesn't benefit one iota if the key was sold for £4 or £40, they were already paid to make the game, what does benefit them is if the game is highly rated in reviews or it hits the sales target set by the publisher as number of copies sold. Some publishers give bonuses for games that get over 90% rating on metacritic for example.

I don't know where you're getting this information about how the industry works....but it's wrong. Certainly doesn't apply to indies or developer/publishers.

 

[mid_gen]

Compared to the other two options, you are:

1) Not buying it.

2) Pirating it.

Both of those involve zero profit for the publisher/dev, no increase in sales numbers and no increase in the online community for games where that matters.

You're missing one :

3) Bought the game at full price

 

[FrenchTart]

You're missing one :

3) Bought the game at full price

Absolutely. In fact, what I do whenever I purchase something is go to google shopping, search for the item I want and then choose "most expensive first" as my sorting method so I can provide the most benefit to the company that is selling me a product.

 

[mark43]

Thought I'd chip in after helping to derail the other thread, but 7 pages to go through.....A few thoughts after reading through that lot.

- I still don't think anyone knows for sure how it actually works, but I do believe the publisher looses revenue, if every singe person bought the new TR game from Ukraine I'm sure they would be way off their target and less likely to produce another sequel for the PC

- This argument that if you couldn't get from a key site you'd wait 6 months or so for the price to come down anyway, yes some people would but there are also some that would buy it at a higher price at launch if that was the only option.

- Seriously, why am I reading 'compared to steam' so much, why is hardly anyone grasping that its not a case of grey market seller or steam, there are plenty of legit key sites.

- Although I'm in the no to grey keys camp, I am wavering slightly over the idea that because of these cheap keys people buy a lot more games, so maybe overall everyone is still doing pretty well.....?

- As for the controversy over FoxEye's NVidia key. I don't think its the same as buying a grey key, but I do think its the same as buying a second hand game which he stated he would like to see eliminated...

Don't think any of us are gonna come to an agreement here....