Steam prices! Grey key sites! and the I love/hate developers thread - Enter if you dare!

[FoxEye]

Good.

I think myself and others just couldnt work out why you thought buying an nvidia game code from ebay was any better than buying a grey market/different region key.

By buying an Nvidia game code, you circumvented buying the game at the full uk retail price.

But you could say the same if I'd...

*bought the game in a Steam sale
*bought it from an auth reseller cheaper than Steam
*bought the GFX card myself and redeemed the code

In fact the only way I could defend myself against that is if I only bought games at the the Steam release price.

That was never what I was suggesting. Boycey and others kept saying I was telling people to pay the full Steam price, but I in fact never said that once.

Not that it matters now. You broke me

 

[Boycey0211]

That was never what I was suggesting. Boycey and others kept saying I was telling people to pay the full Steam price, but I in fact never said that once.

Not that it matters now. You broke me

No, it was simple logic.

Your original post was 'ban the key sellers from OCUK'

That was a pretty bold statement, and if adhered to leaves you with one option, buy from the storefronts.

What you didn't say was 'unless you find keys on the MM or ebay cheaper like I do'.

In which case using said keysites may aswell be endorsed.

 

[MissChief]

If a developer is wholly owned by the Publisher (like DICE for example) then while the Dev may get a bonus of some sort I'd imagine they're unlikely to see any of profits unless it's a higher budget on their next game or the ability to push back when a release date is too soon. That will all be sucked up by EA themselves.

However, an independent developer who strikes a deal with a Publisher are likely to get a cut of any sales price. The only problem is, they're unlikely to be in a position to negotiate how much and in which territory. They'll likely get a few percent of whatever the local RRP or even the local selling price is.

 

[Jono8]

But you could say the same if I'd...

*bought the game in a Steam sale
*bought it from an auth reseller cheaper than Steam
*bought the GFX card myself and redeemed the code

But you didn't, you puposefully went about finding a key cheaper than the authrosied sellers were selling it for before/around release.

Dont get me wrong, i think you should absolutely have done what you did. Why pay more than you have to, for anything.

I just don't think you can critisice people for buying grey market keys/keys from other regions, whilst yourself buying an nvidia game code from ebay.

 

[mid_gen]

Definitely. PC sales would drop considerably.

You think the market analysts at major publishers that have a wealth of experience and facts to work with haven't done this kind of research already?

You think that if there was an opportunity to make more revenue through lower pricing the big publishers wouldn't be doing it?

 

[Jono8]

You think the market analysts at major publishers that have a wealth of experience and facts to work with haven't done this kind of research already?

You think that if there was an opportunity to make more revenue through lower pricing the big publishers wouldn't be doing it?

Or maybe at the moment the balance is just right. Have some outlets charging silly amounts for all the fanboys/gullible people/people with more money than sense and then allow the grey market to continue as is. After all there is no point pricing it low across the board when you have chumps willing to stump up £100 for the "special pre order limited collectors edition inluding 2 new pairs of boots your character can wear".

With current DRM and the fact you basically have to be connected to the internet to play any game these days, it would be very easy to stop grey market keys/buying from another region (or at least make it a hell of a lot more difficult).

You think that if there was an opportunity to make more revenue through extensive region locking and clamping down on the grey market, the big publishers wouldn't be doing it?

 

[krisboats]

Mind = blown.

How can so many people say they don't care about the developers... who make the games they play?

I just can't comprehend it.

If you don't care about the people making your games then by extension you must not care about the games.

Unless by some feat of mental gymnastics you've managed to disassociate the games from the people who make them.

If the game is too expensive i wouldnt buy it. In the past i've pirated most things and half of them turn out to be rubbish. Paying for a digital copy that i cant resell is ridiculous if i'm never going to use it. With how cheap some of the keys have been i've bought games that i'd have otherwise pirated. This has actually happened quite a lot now i've got my new computer. Fancied playing crysis 3 and had lost the disc, it was cheaper and easier to rebuy through origin than wait around for delivery so i did that. Another sale of £4 just for conevenience.

The thing i dont like is that theres no recourse for digital sales if the game is rubbish. If i buy a disc i can usually sell it on again after i've tried it so my loss is minimal. For a digital download that costs the same amount a lot of the time then i'm screwed if i dont like it or it turns out unplayable for whatever reason.

My limit is about £25 for digital content, any more and i wont bother. If i can get a cd key for £13 then great, if not i'll get a physical copy and resell it.

The thing a lot of people miss is that if i resell my disc because the game is crap then the developer has 2+ buyers of the same copy at retail value. If retail is £40 then they make more money selling keys at £25 each with no resale option.

I dont care about a developer if the game is rubbish. If they make a great game then i'm happy to support them with a sale. The downside is a lot of games dont get playable demos that make trying it easy enough (console and pc) to judge before handing over cash and because of being burned by developers in the past i and i'm sure many others have lost a lot of sympathy for the outdated systems currently in place.

 

[TwsT]

i don't use key sites,

 

[Vonhelmet]

You think the market analysts at major publishers that have a wealth of experience and facts to work with haven't done this kind of research already?

You think that if there was an opportunity to make more revenue through lower pricing the big publishers wouldn't be doing it?

Of course they have. Why else do you think prices drop so quickly and things go on sale so much? They know that for the most part the opening prices are untenable.

 

[mid_gen]

Of course they have. Why else do you think prices drop so quickly and things go on sale so much? They know that for the most part the opening prices are untenable.

The VAST majority of sales happen in the first 30 days, that's the time you make your money back, when you shift big volumes at full price.

That used to be the case anyway. Now on PC you have to write off a big chunk of revenue that goes via the grey market.

 

[FrenchTart]

The VAST majority of sales happen in the first 30 days, that's the time you make your money back, when you shift big volumes at full price.

Doesn't that fact take the wind out of the sales of your arguments about key sites being such a problem?

edit: Your edit looks like an attempt to back-peddle on this. You're claiming opinions are facts again I'm afraid.

 

[mid_gen]

Doesn't that fact take the wind out of the sales of your arguments about key sites being such a problem?

edit: Your edit looks like an attempt to back-peddle on this. You're claiming opinions are facts again I'm afraid.

I added the second part. This is an internet forum, we're all stating opinions. Some of us have more knowledge on the subject at hand though.

How a back peddle? I'm stating exactly what the problem is. You make most of your money on launch sales at full price. On PC people are using grey market sellers to pay sale prices at launch. That is damaging PC revenues.

I don't know how anyone can sit there and argue that buying games at a huge discount on Launch is more money for developers.

 

[FrenchTart]

I'm tired of re-answering that question. I already addressed it earlier - yet you keep going back to the point, ignoring people's answers and then re-spinning the same statement that doesn't actually reflect what people have said.

You also presumably have a good idea how much knowledge you have on the subject - you have no idea how much anyone else does so the fallacy of "some of us have more knowledge on the subject at hand" is exactly that - a fallacy. I'd stop relying on it to validate your opinion to yourself.

 

[Jono8]

I added the second part. This is an internet forum, we're all stating opinions. Some of us have more knowledge on the subject at hand though.

How a back peddle? I'm stating exactly what the problem is. You make most of your money on launch sales at full price. On PC people are using grey market sellers to pay sale prices at launch. That is damaging PC revenues.

I don't know how anyone can sit there and argue that buying games at a huge discount on Launch is more money for developers.

But again we come around to the age old argument of whether the sales gained don't trump the money lost.

There will be a large amount of sales gained that otherwise would not have been sales if the game wasnt available at a cheaper grey market price.

Yes, there will be some revenue lost from people that woud have otherwise bought it full price, but there will be people who wouldnt have bought it at all that now will have due to it being cheaper.

I would imagine that the fact that developers and publishers have not cracked down on this sort of thing is testament to the fact that the balance is ok as it stands. People have been buying through VPN's on Origin for years and years and they still do NOTHING about it. Why do you think that is?

The likelihood is, is that like i said above, EA realise they are probably gaining quite a bit of revenue and a number of sales that they simply would not have had otherwise.

 

[mid_gen]

Well, I can tell you that key reselling in relation to sales performance has not had people doing cartwheels down the hallways celebrating.

If you want to believe that buying Russian keys through grey market sellers is doing developers a favour, you go ahead

 

[FoxEye]

No, it was simple logic.

Logic I don't agree with.

Nobody has yet explained the difference between:

Me buying the GFX card and redeeming the code.
Me buying the GFX card and someone else in the UK redeeming the code.
Someone else in the UK buying the GFX card and me redeeming the code.

You could say that in /all/ three scenarios redeeming the code from the GFX card cost Konami a sale - even if the person redeeming bought the GFX card.

And again this all hinges around the supposition that nVidia paid little or nothing* to Konami for the code, which people have claimed as fact despite being in no position to know.

*Yes, someone did suggest this. What incentive there would be for Konami to give away codes to nV I have no idea.

 

[hyperseven]

What is it with this overuse of the word 'care'?

To put it bluntly, I don't. It's just just a product. Why should I 'care' about the developers? I hold no emotional attachment to them. If the studio making that product went under today I would not 'care' one iota. The IP, if any good would be snaffled up by another studio anyway.

 

[CyberCrow]

What is it with this overuse of the word 'care'?

To put it bluntly, I don't. It's just just a product. Why should I 'care' about the developers? I hold no emotional attachment to them. If the studio making that product went under today I would not 'care' one iota. The IP, if any good would be snaffled up by another studio anyway.

Totally agree, the day they start selling virtual games at a reasonable price is the day il care.
Most of the game on Origin an Steam are above retail price any way but we don't hear people complaining about those, no wonder people go to "grey sites".

 

[Vonhelmet]

Totally agree, the day they start selling virtual games at a reasonable price is the day il care.
Most of the game on Origin an Steam are above retail price any way but we don't hear people complaining about those, no wonder people go to "grey sites".

Or just build up a massive wish list and wait for things to come on sale.

 

[Jono8]

Or just build up a massive wish list and wait for things to come on sale.

Indeed. There are so many games released these days, the notion of paying full rrp for each one is ridiculous (for myself anyway). I have loads i havent even played yet that i have picked up in various sales.