The women can't just pull out like that. I hate people that do that. I used to ride a bike and nearly had several accidents when filtering (very carefully). It will probably go 50:50 but it does annoy me that this always happens because people in cars pull out without looking.
Step son in motorbike crash
- Thread starter Banzai_Joe
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What else was she meant to do? Van driver was letting her out, traffic was busy the only way she could have joined is if someone let her out!
She should have joined right hand lane and then moved into left, but still doesn't change the fact that her move wasn't an illegal one or anything and the motorcyclist was clearly filtering too fast.
I am a motorcyclist and this is a hazard that I would have spotted, as would probably 80% of motorcyclists.
Soldato
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Not sure if this will go 50:50, something similiar happened to me on a bicycle when I was in the "gutter", and a woman pulled out in front of me and totalled me, though maybe filtering on dual carriage changes things somewhat.
The police charged her with careless driving and blame went 100% to the driver for insurance purposes.
The police charged her with careless driving and blame went 100% to the driver for insurance purposes.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Where does this notion that his entire career is ruined come from? Surely most people recover from this sort of injury? I did exactly the same thing years ago, bend my wirst right back and broke it and I had to have it pinned as well. I made a full recovery and have full use of my wrist - the only hint it was ever done are the two scars where the pins went in which I still have. There was never even any question about whether I would regain full use of my hand or not?
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Whilst i'm trying to sit on the fence with this, surely the woman has to take some responsbility. I asked Peter's friend who was there, he kind of edged towards a 50:50 blame but he did say, "she came straight out and straight across the lanes without looking"
Also, if the van driver is going to reverse to let her out does he not take any responsibility to ensure its safe before allowing her out? If she did indeed shoot straight out and across the lanes then that indicates she hurried to beat maybe oncoming traffic.
Maz, you said he was "clearly filtering too fast". How can you tell? Is 10mph too fast? I'm just thinking if she came across the lanes fast and basically hit him thus his bike came to a dead stop then surely even at 10mph he'd go over his own handlebars and her bonnet?
I'm not saying he wasn't going too fast, i'm just wondering how fast one of them would need to be going to cause such a collision.
I don't know, i guess it will be down to any (if any) witness accounts.
When some eejit pranged me a few years ago, he at first admitted blame, then denied it, to which my insurance said without witnesses it will be a 50:50 split. He then did admit it and all was sorted in my favour.
edit: just got off the phone with his mum. He needs surgery to his wrist (not hand as i thought). its a really nasty break and plates/pins are needed which will reduce his mobility but hopefully not too much as he's only 18 and should heal well.
Got to ring back every morning between 6-7am to try and get a surgey slot!! wtf?!?!?
If it aint done quickly his bones will start to knit together in thr wrong way. I know....happened to me.
Also, if the van driver is going to reverse to let her out does he not take any responsibility to ensure its safe before allowing her out? If she did indeed shoot straight out and across the lanes then that indicates she hurried to beat maybe oncoming traffic.
Maz, you said he was "clearly filtering too fast". How can you tell? Is 10mph too fast? I'm just thinking if she came across the lanes fast and basically hit him thus his bike came to a dead stop then surely even at 10mph he'd go over his own handlebars and her bonnet?
I'm not saying he wasn't going too fast, i'm just wondering how fast one of them would need to be going to cause such a collision.
I don't know, i guess it will be down to any (if any) witness accounts.
When some eejit pranged me a few years ago, he at first admitted blame, then denied it, to which my insurance said without witnesses it will be a 50:50 split. He then did admit it and all was sorted in my favour.
edit: just got off the phone with his mum. He needs surgery to his wrist (not hand as i thought). its a really nasty break and plates/pins are needed which will reduce his mobility but hopefully not too much as he's only 18 and should heal well.
Got to ring back every morning between 6-7am to try and get a surgey slot!! wtf?!?!?
If it aint done quickly his bones will start to knit together in thr wrong way. I know....happened to me.Because he rode into the side of a car.
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[TW]Fox;21989936 said:
It came from the mind of an 18 year old who just had a nasty accident.
See the edit on my last post too for an update to the prognosis.
Going over handle bars is one thing. Totalling a car and the bike is something else. You wont write a car off hitting it at 10mph in a bike....
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Yeah....i guess. I think there are a lot of chinese whispers going around. I'd personally be surprised if the car is totalled. I've not seen either vehicle or step-son yet, so am only going on what i was told.
He shouldn't have been filtering past a junction at all, let alone the speed he was going, but that's something he will hopefully take from this. - But, saying that, this is from a safety perspective, not necessarily a legal one.
This is definitely one of those grey areas, and something that the insurance companies will wrangle out as to who is responsible.
This is definitely one of those grey areas, and something that the insurance companies will wrangle out as to who is responsible.
[TW]Fox;21989947 said:
She placed the car in front of him with no time to stop and he was filtering carefully. You can't really put a speed on "filtering dangerously", by law the guidance is to simply filter with care. At no point during motorcycle training are you told to filter at speed X or speed Y, rather to do so with care if you do chose to do it. I would say in this circumstance, how can a motorcyclist be put at fault if she has come across two lanes in front of him? Not really fair is it.
It's not the Van drivers fault at all. If you flash your lights at someone to come out of a junction and they crash, it's their falt for assessing it was safe to come out. The Van driver "aided" her pulling out of said junction but is in no way accountable. He was clearing a path, not checking up the road behind him as well.
Car drivers will typically point and blame bikers. Bikers vice verca. But I don't see how car drivers should be allowed to get away with this kind of thing. She pulled out and caused an accident. End of. He was hardly doing 100mph. Bikes filter. People should be used to that by 2012 you'd think.
Whilst I agree that he really should have no doubt been filtering slower, I can't see how that changes her blame in anyway?
I'd say that whilst he could have avoided it, she still pulled out unsafely by the very fact she was hit..
When I'm travelling down a road at 30MPH and car pulls out on me at the last minute and I hit him, by some peoples logic, the obvous fact I hit him, I must have been travelling too fast, and therefore it's all my fault.. Which infers I should travel at 5-10MPH when approaching any side road 'just in case'..
I'd say it's 50/50 at worse, or if it has to swing one way, it'd be in favour of the motorcyclist.
Don't get me wrong, I rode motorbikes for many years, I drive cars, and I ride to work on a bicycle at the moment, I'm very much aware that you need to be super vigilant and minimise your risk, you have a large amount of control of your own safety, but you can't pin 100% of the blame on lack of vigilance if you had right of way..
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Thanks jaybee, that's a seemingly very fair assumption.
We've no idea if thats how it happened.
It's a hard one for sure as you are s'posed to be going at a speed that you can stop at if owt happens, At the mo I only filter when I can see over the cars I am filtering past & when I reach a van or lorry I stop until I can creep forward for a clear view.
Having said that when that Dude pulled out on me I had no chance but he pulled out to turn right then just stopped & I was only going 30-32mph on a bright sunny day wearing a 2 week old hi vis vest.
"I didn't see you"
+ 
= 
Having said that when that Dude pulled out on me I had no chance but he pulled out to turn right then just stopped & I was only going 30-32mph on a bright sunny day wearing a 2 week old hi vis vest.
"I didn't see you"
+ =
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[TW]Fox;21990192 said:
Lol, that's actually true fox, we don't know fully yet. It 'seems' like that's how it happened.
It would be mildy amusing if the true story of events is totally different to the way i've portrayed it (as told to me).
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not a fair comparison really, there's a difference between a clear road and two lanes of traffic at a standstill.
if the driver had been waiting to pull onto the dual carriageway and both lanes of stationary traffic leave a space for her to pull into I would imagine most people would pull out. Maybe she should have gone to lane one first and then moved over as previously mentioned, hindsight which I imagine she wishes she had done now. Given a van was in the way blocking the view she should, and may have been, pulling out slowly, we don't know.
Hope wish and fingers crossed the surgery goes ok and he's back 100% well quickly
[TW]Fox;21989936 said:
You probably don't use your hands for manual work on a day-to-day basis though do you?Therefore you can't be sure quite what pains/problems you'd have if you were a plumber or similar. That and not every injury is the same.
But at least what can be gleaned from your post its that it may not be so bad for the OP's step son.
It wasn't meant to be equivocal, it's to highlight that point that if you have right of way, you have right of way.. This talk about the fact he is in the wrong because he was obviously going too fast, with the qualification being that he actually hit her is a little ill thought out from a liability point of view..
And there in lies the problem, most people are clueless and unaware that they alone have sole responsibility when pulling out..
Whilst I agree that most people might do this, it's fraught with risk, that risk may be low, but it sometimes doesn't pay off, when it doesn't, it's not right to blame the person who has right of way for not spotting their mistake.. Of course he could have done more to help himself and been more vigiliant, but again, if both are equally incapable as each other, you always have to fall back on who has right of way?
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Riiiiiiight then.....just spoken to Peter and this is what actually happened.
Single lane of traffice queueing up to lights.
About 100yds before the lights is a side road on the left.
The white van was obsurring the entrance/exit to the road so he reversed to allow a woman to pull out and turn right. This happened as Peter was overtaking down the outside of the traffic. There was no oncoming traffic and he was doing about 30-35mph. He said the woman just pulled out and as there was no oncoming traffic she obviously didn't bother looking right and WHAM! Peter went straight into her drivers side. He said he had no clue she was there or chance to stop, no skid marks (except in his pants) just WHAM, then he flew over the bonnet.
The car is indeed totalled according to the police as is his bike. (this is her third write-off including a range rover )
The police have witness statements and personally i think the woman is in the wrong.
Peter maybe should have exercised a little more caution and gone slower, but maybe that's just his inexperience. What she did was negligent. If the van obscurred your view then surely you'd edge out rather than blindly just go for it. For the very reason of avoiding what happened.
This has happened to me a few times in the past tbh. Actually the other week i was berated by a bloke cos i didn't let him out, but there was a cyclist coming past me on my right, so the same kind of accident could have happened. I looked in my mirror before deciding whether to let the bloke out, thought it too dangerous and decided against it.
So, now you know what truly happened, what do you guys think?
Lol, Peter's excess is £800, the bike is worth £900, however if his insurance win then he doesn't pay anything does he?
Single lane of traffice queueing up to lights.
About 100yds before the lights is a side road on the left.
The white van was obsurring the entrance/exit to the road so he reversed to allow a woman to pull out and turn right. This happened as Peter was overtaking down the outside of the traffic. There was no oncoming traffic and he was doing about 30-35mph. He said the woman just pulled out and as there was no oncoming traffic she obviously didn't bother looking right and WHAM! Peter went straight into her drivers side. He said he had no clue she was there or chance to stop, no skid marks (except in his pants) just WHAM, then he flew over the bonnet.
The car is indeed totalled according to the police as is his bike. (this is her third write-off including a range rover
)The police have witness statements and personally i think the woman is in the wrong.
Peter maybe should have exercised a little more caution and gone slower, but maybe that's just his inexperience. What she did was negligent. If the van obscurred your view then surely you'd edge out rather than blindly just go for it. For the very reason of avoiding what happened.
This has happened to me a few times in the past tbh. Actually the other week i was berated by a bloke cos i didn't let him out, but there was a cyclist coming past me on my right, so the same kind of accident could have happened. I looked in my mirror before deciding whether to let the bloke out, thought it too dangerous and decided against it.
So, now you know what truly happened, what do you guys think?
Lol, Peter's excess is £800, the bike is worth £900, however if his insurance win then he doesn't pay anything does he?