Straight to Phase?
- Thread starter Matt7613
- Start date
w3bbo said:Been wanting to try phase for some time now but all these threads saying tried phase and gone back to water put me off
If you find yourself a good builder at the right price, i would say go for it. As i said earlier, there has been a lot of uninformed twaddle talked about phase on this forum. Most of which is regurgitated over and over again by the same people, most fo whom don't run phase and probably never have. It's a bit like politicians telling the same ******** over and over again, tell it often enough and it MUST BE TRUE, must'nt it.
Soldato
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kitfit1 said:
so i suppose i regurgitate what i said and i have even used one?
btw.. might want to stray away from using that language
Obviously some history between you 2
It comes down to the noise factor with me really and with the quads pumping out a lot of heat especially when overclocked, getting one tuned to cope AND be quiet aswell aint gonna be easy.
It comes down to the noise factor with me really and with the quads pumping out a lot of heat especially when overclocked, getting one tuned to cope AND be quiet aswell aint gonna be easy.
It depends on what one considers quiet. To me the stock Adda fans that come with PC60's are just too noisy, but ok when at medium setting. The fans on a Mach2GT at full RPM are too noisy, but fine on lower settings.
If one was to have thier unit tuned with R507 it would be too loud for my liking. As you have to have the fans running full whack. Get it tuned with R404/R402 and have a slight compromise in low temperatures for quiet operation and more practicle for day to day use.
The compressor choice is important too. Vapo units have a loud compressor (so I am told), the mach2GT compressor is quiet.
IMO people who have bought phase and sold is quickly have not bought it for the right reasons. It's an expensive addition to PC benchmarking/overclocking. Not primarily a 24/7 solution.
If you aren't into pushing your components to within an inch of thier life to get that extra 2mhz, then don't buy phase....IMO.
W3bbo...you would love one. You know it!
If one was to have thier unit tuned with R507 it would be too loud for my liking. As you have to have the fans running full whack. Get it tuned with R404/R402 and have a slight compromise in low temperatures for quiet operation and more practicle for day to day use.
The compressor choice is important too. Vapo units have a loud compressor (so I am told), the mach2GT compressor is quiet.
IMO people who have bought phase and sold is quickly have not bought it for the right reasons. It's an expensive addition to PC benchmarking/overclocking. Not primarily a 24/7 solution.
If you aren't into pushing your components to within an inch of thier life to get that extra 2mhz, then don't buy phase....IMO.
W3bbo...you would love one. You know it!
Haha - don't tempt me m8.
I'd need to sell a shedload of WC components first at a loss which would then be expensive to replace should I find phase not to my liking. I like to 'push things' a little but I also use my pc 24/7. Interested in a WC kit m8?
I'd need to sell a shedload of WC components first at a loss which would then be expensive to replace should I find phase not to my liking. I like to 'push things' a little but I also use my pc 24/7. Interested in a WC kit m8?
weescott said:
This is not true. The introduction of the higher pressure r402(a) into r404a would almost certainly result in higher discharge pressures than r507.
r404a is r507 with a small amount of r134a added, the performance difference between r507 and r404a is very small at best. Please feel free to use any thermodynamic package to verify this.
The BD35 in the XE would struggle running high pressure refrigerants at high suction pressures. The TL4CL in the XE-II could happilly be modified to handle high loads without "exploding".
Not meaning to sound harsh but this is a bad analogy and the same principles don't apply to vapour compression (phase change) refrigeration...
Well i've just benched a q6600 to within an inch of its life in a Mach 2 GT i'm still here and so is the standard Mach 2 GT 
Was a bit noisey though with the upteen extra fans stuck all over the mobo and case plus an aircon unit on full chat and no sub zero temps
Was a bit noisey though with the upteen extra fans stuck all over the mobo and case plus an aircon unit on full chat and no sub zero temps BILKO1 said:Well i've just benched a q6600 to within an inch of its life in a Mach 2 GT i'm still here and so is the standard Mach 2 GT
Screenies!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok this is what happens if a standard r134a Mach / XE etc is put onto a very high load CPU beyond what it was designed for:
It starts with the capillary tube not delivering enough refrigerant to cool the load resulting in very high suction gas superheat.
Given that the compressors are designed to handle very high superheat (at least up to +32C return gas temperature with -35C saturation temperature, i.e. 67K) the high superheat on it's own is not a problem.
However this high superheat results in a very high discharge temperature from the compressor which the condensor is then subject to, raising the condensor load.
The high condensor load results in the saturation temperature of the refrigerant in the condensor rising from a nominal +40C(~10Bara) for a stock Mach to more like +50C(~13Bara). The rise in pressure drop accross the capillary tube causes the flow rate to increase which accomodates the higher load a little better although due to the too restrictive capillary tube (sized for lower loads) the subcooling at the condensor exit will be higher than normal because of liquid backing up inside the condensor.
None of this is good and the system is not working "well" but the components are probably still opperating within specification. Ironically - a modified r402a NL11F (designed for r134a) compressor system like some of you guys run is boarderline with regards to running within specification even on a good day.
The worst thing anyone can do in this situation is mess with fan speed, leave the fans on full and live with the noise. If you start to mess with fan speed then you've no idea whats going on inside the system.
It starts with the capillary tube not delivering enough refrigerant to cool the load resulting in very high suction gas superheat.
Given that the compressors are designed to handle very high superheat (at least up to +32C return gas temperature with -35C saturation temperature, i.e. 67K) the high superheat on it's own is not a problem.
However this high superheat results in a very high discharge temperature from the compressor which the condensor is then subject to, raising the condensor load.
The high condensor load results in the saturation temperature of the refrigerant in the condensor rising from a nominal +40C(~10Bara) for a stock Mach to more like +50C(~13Bara). The rise in pressure drop accross the capillary tube causes the flow rate to increase which accomodates the higher load a little better although due to the too restrictive capillary tube (sized for lower loads) the subcooling at the condensor exit will be higher than normal because of liquid backing up inside the condensor.
None of this is good and the system is not working "well" but the components are probably still opperating within specification. Ironically - a modified r402a NL11F (designed for r134a) compressor system like some of you guys run is boarderline with regards to running within specification even on a good day.
The worst thing anyone can do in this situation is mess with fan speed, leave the fans on full and live with the noise. If you start to mess with fan speed then you've no idea whats going on inside the system.
w3bbo said:Haha - don't tempt me m8.
I'd need to sell a shedload of WC components first at a loss which would then be expensive to replace should I find phase not to my liking. I like to 'push things' a little but I also use my pc 24/7. Interested in a WC kit m8?
Be brave - you know you want to!!
Don't sell the water gear - you'll still want to cool the GFX card (and anything else in your loop) so run the Phase along side your existing water setup. Works a treat
if you're the kind of guy who can't live unless you think shaving a second or 2 off super-pi makes you a legend then maybe phase is for you but for day 2 day usage .....a good water setup really is enough.
when you're really into benching a single stage is pony anyway ...you gotta be thinking cascade or just the odd LN2/DI session for anything worthy.
when you're really into benching a single stage is pony anyway ...you gotta be thinking cascade or just the odd LN2/DI session for anything worthy.
w3bbo said:Haha - don't tempt me m8.
I'd need to sell a shedload of WC components first at a loss which would then be expensive to replace should I find phase not to my liking. I like to 'push things' a little but I also use my pc 24/7. Interested in a WC kit m8?
don't expect to get great results in a SS and have the luxury of a 24/7 system also.....at least not in terms of noise.
the extra few hundred mhz aren't worth the hassle, but sometimes you just gotta go there yourself to find out
marscay said:don't expect to get great results in a SS and have the luxury of a 24/7 system also.....at least not in terms of noise.
the extra few hundred mhz aren't worth the hassle, but sometimes you just gotta go there yourself to find out
I have to say I take issue with that - I ran an old Mach 1 on my XP-m system and found it more than adequate for everyday usage, even with a large clock. With a properly modded system you can have a relatively quiet system and a decent jump over water. It is expensive, but certainly not 'pointless'.
I will concede that I run nothing more than a low grade pelt on my gfx card now (only because I can't be bothered to dismount it) - I don't even run water on my main rig anymore
But phase is fun - and well worth a whirl - whether you stick with it or not is neither here nor there, as long as you enjoy the experience!
In short
Intel has advanced and sadly it's past stuff (compeared to G0 stepping and Nm45 Konds) are a lot lot hotter!
Phase wise, not one retail unit thats ready in a box that ya can buy off a self will cool an Intel Quad
Ls and Mach2 will cool dual core enough. How ever the LS will not be so good and the mac will be better.
Modding the above will allow cooler and higer loads so will allow more fun on dual core but also open window to allow quad core!
Realistly and the only true option is a custom ss thats made directly for quad!
Your graves filling with water rapidly today. Are you going to kill ya self or can i go and fill it in now with a Vapo XE thats of no use to man or beast and you taken are info on bord!
Intel has advanced and sadly it's past stuff (compeared to G0 stepping and Nm45 Konds) are a lot lot hotter!
Phase wise, not one retail unit thats ready in a box that ya can buy off a self will cool an Intel Quad
Ls and Mach2 will cool dual core enough. How ever the LS will not be so good and the mac will be better.
Modding the above will allow cooler and higer loads so will allow more fun on dual core but also open window to allow quad core!
Realistly and the only true option is a custom ss thats made directly for quad!
Your graves filling with water rapidly today. Are you going to kill ya self or can i go and fill it in now with a Vapo XE thats of no use to man or beast and you taken are info on bord!
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?pcm05=1002513
The Mach 2 GT struggled but survived but i'm getting MUCH better results using a E6600 in most benching tests.
The Mach 2 GT struggled but survived but i'm getting MUCH better results using a E6600 in most benching tests.