Suarez

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Alpherah said:
Its been said before, and ill say it again.
What else was Suarez supposed to use?

Assuming the information he gave to his native press is accurate.
He speaks about 3 words of English, in his own language (And other variants of Spanish) descriptive words are used extensively, they simply don't say "little man". Obviously its possible, type 'little man' into babel fish and see for yourself, but when the language is properly used, it will be literally translated into 'little black man', or 'little white man', but when spoken the descriptive word is 'silent' and the recipient simply hears 'little man' if that makes sense.

Im sure everyone here's been caught out with their French or German homework once upon a time, using literal translating online, and being told what you've written makes no sense.
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http://files.chesscomfiles.com/images_users/tiny_mce/Arctor/clutching_at_straws.jpg


Please don't Hotlink.
 
BaZ87 said:
I'm not implying there's a conspiracy against Liverpool/Suarez or anything like that in case you think I am. It's a genuine question.

If you make reference to someones colour, nationality, religion or whatever else, should there be a fixed punishment?

To say there's no defense of the word negro is subjective, especially when it concerns somebody from a different culture where that word might be acceptable. Naivety/ignorance may not be an excuse (and before Dan comes out with some sarcastic crap, I'm not saying Suarez said anything with honest intentions (if he said anything at all)) but surely the issue with certain words is that they're usually used with the intention to offend? Being ignorant isn't the same as being racist and so should it be punished the same?
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First point, no I know you're not and I know it is.

I think it's difficult to have a fixed punishment for something like this. How do you enforce it? Does the referee record the comments and then the players face punishment after the game? or is it like this? Where one player lodges a complaint and then it goes to a independent investigation?
The FA rules said there was a fixed punishment of X > Y period, but also said that it's dependant on this investigation, so my guess is that other happenings like this (unless of course it's recorded and just one sided / obvious) is that here might be a inconstancy to these type of decisions (such as the Mackie one) Does that make sense?
I don't think it's subjective in this case though, certainly not given the time Suarez has spent in Europe (Holland specifically) he can't of spent so much time over in Europe without knowing what he can and can't say, or certainly in regards to such a phrase.
 
Alpherah said:
Its been said before, and ill say it again.
What else was Suarez supposed to use?

Assuming the information he gave to his native press is accurate.
He speaks about 3 words of English, in his own language (And other variants of Spanish) descriptive words are used extensively, they simply don't say "little man". Obviously its possible, type 'little man' into babel fish and see for yourself, but when the language is properly used, it will be literally translated into 'little black man', or 'little white man', but when spoken the descriptive word is 'silent' and the recipient simply hears 'little man' if that makes sense.

Im sure everyone here's been caught out with their French or German homework once upon a time, using literal translating online, and being told what you've written makes no sense.
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Personaly I think you are being a little neive - no offence meant

He has been playing in Europe for a number of years - and yet this is the first time this has come up? hmmm

secondly he compares it to Kuyt being a "blonde" - come on , only a ******** idiot fallls for that excuse , surely?

IF he was only just transfered straight from uruguay (sp?) then fair enough, but he has been in Europe for 3 years - and there hasnt been even a HINT of him saying anything similar? (even of players backing him up)
 
Tummy said:
I don't think it's subjective in this case though, certainly not given the time Suarez has spent in Europe (Holland specifically) he can't of spent so much time over in Europe without knowing what he can and can't say, or certainly in regards to such a phrase.
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He speaks their native language since a young age, he never experienced having to revert to his mother tongue in Holland.
 
FrankJH said:
Personaly I think you are being a little neive - no offence meant

He has been playing in Europe for a number of years - and yet this is the first time this has come up? hmmm

secondly he compares it to Kuyt being a "blonde" - come on , only a ******** idiot fallls for that excuse , surely?

IF he was only just transfered straight from uruguay (sp?) then fair enough, but he has been in Europe for 3 years - and there hasnt been even a HINT of him saying anything similar? (even of players backing him up)
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As above (re the playing in Europe thing).
He's not been in a situation where he can't communicate whilst playing in Europe I would imagine.
And for playing in England, reverting to mother tongue makes more sense then speaking Dutch, that would just be crazy.

And re the Kuyt thing, thats based entirely on a certain reporter saying "i heard that one element of their defence is ..."
 
Alpherah said:
He speaks their native language since a young age, he never experienced having to revert to his mother tongue in Holland.
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BULL

If he doesnt speak English within a year of playing for an English club, or 3 years of being in Europe - there is something wrong

We are talking something VERY basic afer all
 
Tummy said:
I don't think it's subjective in this case though, certainly not given the time Suarez has spent in Europe (Holland specifically) he can't of spent so much time over in Europe without knowing what he can and can't say, or certainly in regards to such a phrase.
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Without knowing if he's admitted to saying something and exactly what he's said, it's difficult to say.

As manic111 says, the term negrito has no meaning in this country so if that's what he's said, it would be difficult to assume that it was used with racist intentions without further evidence. The term negro has a meaning here but is different in some Spanish speaking countries so there's even some difficulty there.

I'm not sure about the being in Europe for 3 years argument either. I assume that terms such as negro are similarly thought of in Holland as they are in England but that's not consistent throughout Europe (in Spain for example, terms such as negrito is acceptable), so knowing not to say something in Holland doesn't mean he should know not to say it here too.
 
BaZ87 said:
Without knowing if he's admitted to saying something and exactly what he's said, it's difficult to say.

As manic111 says, the term negrito has no meaning in this country so if that's what he's said, it would be difficult to assume that it was used with racist intentions without further evidence.

I'm not sure about the being in Europe for 3 years argument either. I assume that terms such as negro are similarly thought of in Holland as they are in England but that's not consistent throughout Europe (in Spain for example, terms such as negrito is acceptable), so knowing not to say something in Holland doesn't mean he should know not to say it here too.
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Will be interesting to see the report about the decision and how it was reached.
 
Tummy said:
I thought Suarez had been in Europe for more like 5 years? :p
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Ermmm, maybe. I didn't check. The point still stands though. Knowing not to say something in Holland, doesn't mean you know not to say something in England and throughout Europe as even just in Europe we have different tolerances to different words.
 
BaZ87 said:
Ermmm, maybe. I didn't check. The point still stands though. Knowing not to say something in Holland, doesn't mean you know not to say something in England and throughout Europe as even just in Europe we have different tolerances to different words.
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That wasn't a reply to you, more to Alph :p

He's been over in Europe since '06 iirc :)
 
Clutching at straws says it all. Are you seriously naive enough to think that in the most intense rivalry in English football he called evra a little negrito ten times without meaning to cause offense ?

Just repeat that to yourself several times and have it sink in

Naive beyond all belief *shakes head*

Pigeon_Killer said:
No he hasn't.
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Yes he has, any other job and he would get sacked by his employees... Why don't you go and test it out at work tomorrow and tell me if you still have a job ?

8 game ban is minor considering the offence.
 
DecoySA said:
Yes he has, any other job and he would get sacked by his employees... Why don't you go and test it out at work tomorrow and tell me if you still have a job ?

8 game ban is minor considering the offence.
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In relation to punishments within football, it's harsh. You're likely to receive a bigger punishment for punching somebody on the street than you would for calling somebody a <insert racist remark>. Yet within football, violent conduct is a fixed 3 game ban but Suarez has been banned for 8 games for insulting Evra and making reference to his colour (but interestingly not discriminating against him).
 
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