Suarez

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BaZ87 said:
In relation to punishments within football, it's harsh. You're likely to receive a bigger punishment for punching somebody on the street than you would for calling somebody a <insert racist remark>. Yet within football, violent conduct is a fixed 3 game ban but Suarez has been banned for 8 games for insulting Evra and making reference to his colour (but interestingly not discriminating against him).
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Hey :p

Wasn't Cantona and Di Canio banned for quite a while for violent conduct :p and Ben Thatcher?

Joking aside, the whole "You wouldn't get away with that in <insert other job here>" is a completely null and void point imho.

Football has always worked a little differently and outside the "norm".
 
Tummy said:
Hey :p

Wasn't Cantona and Di Canio banned for quite a while for violent conduct :p

Joking aside, the whole "You wouldn't get away with that in <insert other job here>" is a completely null and void point imho.

Football has always worked a little differently and outside the "norm".
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Slightly different as Cantona attacked a fan and Di Canio the ref. That would be the equivalent of attacking a policeman; you'd get a greater punishment for that than you would for attacking a random person.

Violent conduct between 2 players (Barton punch on Pederson for example) is a 3 game ban.
 
BaZ87 said:
Slightly different as Cantona attacked a fan and Di Canio the ref. That would be the equivalent of attacking a policeman; you'd get a greater punishment for that than you would for attacking a random person.

Violent conduct between 2 players (Barton punch on Pederson for example) is a 3 game ban.
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I wasn't being entirely serious :(
 
DecoySA said:
They mentioned on Talksport that players in Italy, Argentina, Morocco and Serbia have been banned for longer than 8 games for racism...
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Yeah, but it's also a much bigger problem in said places. They need bigger bans to help stamp it out all together.
 
Purdy said:
I see decoySA has made a fantastic return to his wummery in a controversial topic
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Apart from nothing I've said is a windup, it's all true... You're just too deluded to realise it.

Your manager on the other hand must be on a massive windup. On 28th November he said

"Dalglish, 60, said: "We would rather have it done and dusted, out in the open.

"Whoever is the guilty party - the person who said it or the accuser - [should] get their due punishment."

Seems to have done a bit of a u turn on that stance lol
 
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All of a sudden we have a 1001 text book solicitors and scholars on the morphology of Uruguayan Spanish all suited and booted in the Liverpool away kit humming the the tune of YNWA. If Liverpool fans are so sure that Evra is wrong and are sticking to the claptrap of his word against mine and my word is better than Evra's then why has there been no mention at all from anyone associated with Suarez or Liverpool about a civil action against Evra.

To be branded a Racist is horrible, especially if falsely accused. Surely his civil action would have strong grounds as Evra has Slandered Suarez in falsely claiming he has used racist terms. We all know that the burden of proof is upon the accused that they did not use the terms.

Here is a quote attributed to Gus Poyet on the 25th November

Poyet thinks, as others have suggested, that Suarez might have used the word "negrito", and that it was misinterpreted by Evra. "In Uruguay it is a nickname for someone whose skin is darker than the rest," he explains. "It is not offensive. Such people are part of our society. We will defend them, go to war with them, share everything with them, and at the same time use that word. But I do understand that in England the word is used differently, so we have to pay attention how we use it.

So if what Poyet is saying is validated and a true account then we are getting to the crux of the matter. I need to stress that if it's a true account of Poyet because there are plenty of bandwagons being jumped on at the moment from 'Pool fans who are quick to say that there is no proof that Suarez actually said what has been attributed to him on Uruguayan TV he used the term. So whatever has been written in the press by The Mirror et al is factually incorrect. Surely a case for Suarez to sue the Mirror for Libel. Anyway lets get back to Suarez's country man's comments

"In Uruguay it is a nickname for someone whose skin is darker than the rest,"

This is the real meat. The word is used first foremost to differentiate someone based on their Skin colour. Unfortunately that's one of the mechanic's of racism. By clearly differentiating someone because of their ethnicity or skin colour. Why would Suarez need to reference Evra based on his skin colour ???

We can all add the fluffly niceties like Poyet about going to war with our Negrito Brothers in arms to defend our country. Or the other defence that Suarez has many Negrito friends and played with many Negrito footballers in Europe. It still does not get away from why he had to use the term in the first place.
 
Well said Loki.

Clearly the other thing that is being overlooked is that Suarez has probably admitted guilt to the FA under a plea of ignorance - he must have.

I know Liverpool fans are trying to look for a way out of this, but there isn't one. Whatever the reason, he was racist. Ignorance is not an excuse. You may wish it was, and fool yourself that it was, but it isn't.

It's really very simple. You can't go to another country and behave as you would in your own (ie. as a racist) - it doesn't wash.

Liverpool playing the 'hard done by' child card is a bit strange too, you'd think their PR people would have a bit more sense.

We won't know unless we get full details of the case (if we do), but there will be more to it than:

- Evra accuses him of racism

- He goes down for it without saying anything 'just because' he's Suarez and everyone has it in for him

Obviously you must realise it isn't as black and white as that (:o).
 
Loki said:
This is the real meat. The word is used first foremost to differentiate someone based on their Skin colour. Unfortunately that's one of the mechanic's of racism. By clearly differentiating someone because of their ethnicity or skin colour. Why would Suarez need to reference Evra based on his skin colour ???

We can all add the fluffly niceties like Poyet about going to war with our Negrito Brothers in arms to defend our country. Or the other defence that Suarez has many Negrito friends and played with many Negrito footballers in Europe. It still does not get away from why he had to use the term in the first place.
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Exactly, a great post.

Just because it's socially acceptable in another country has sod all to do with what's acceptable in this country. It's not a defense and hearing that idiot mark lawrenson try to use it as a defense on the radio just now was laughable. Would he have had the same view had it not been liverpool. I doubt it. He was using the excuse that commentators use the word and in Spain Negrito is used on the pitch. Yeah great example using Spain as a pillar of racial harmony :D

I applaud the FA for having the balls to hand out a decent penalty IF he did indeed admit to saying it or they have other evidence we are not yet aware of. I do understand the frustrations though that the FA then bend over backwards to accomodate Rooney after his lash out.
 
I expect then that once the Terry issue is sorted with the Police, the FA will look to deal with him as harshly as they have with Suarez.

You can call it what you will, but surely if you speak a different language and you use the word "negro" to describe black, this surely should not make you racist.

Probably the most revered figure in the history of Uruguayan football is Obdulio Varela, captain of the side that won the World Cup in 1950. His nickname was "El Negro Jefe" - the black boss.
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The above is a quote from the BBC site, does that nickname automatically make any white person a racist for saying it?
 
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RE - John Terry. So do videos clearly show him saying 'you're a blah blah'? I was under the impression he *may* have said the same thing but with 'did you think I said....' in front?
 
anticonscience said:
I expect then that once the Terry issue is sorted with the Police, the FA will look to deal with him as harshly as they have with Suarez.

You can call it what you will, but surely if you speak a different language and you use the word "negro" to describe black, this surely should not make you racist.



The above is a quote from the BBC site, does that nickname automatically make any white person a racist for saying it?
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No, but kissing your wife in public or having a beer shouldnt wind you up in jail in some countries either should it by that reckoning?

Just because its alright over there, doesnt by any stretch of the imagination make it right over here.

Its like a yank rolling up to you and your misses and complimenting her on her lovely tight fanny.

Not quite the same thing.
 
anticonscience said:
The above is a quote from the BBC site, does that nickname automatically make any white person a racist for saying it?
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That's from the 50's. Have a look at our attitudes and nicknames for black people, even friends and you would see a similar trend.

It doesn't matter one bit what's acceptable in his country. He isn't in his country and regardless even if they tolerate it in his country it doesn't make it any less racist.

I understand they may use the term for friends but does anyone here actually think he used the term of endearment. No of course he didn't. Again IF he used that term and did it with anger he did it because he is a racist and 8 games is a decent penalty.

I hope they give Terry longer if he's proved to have done similar. After all he cannot use any defense, that Alf Garnett used to call his friends sambos in an affectionate way because that pre-dates Terry :D

It would seem Suarez must have admitted the term, Terry is denying it. I would hope if they find Terry guilty he gets longer for lieing as well.

Again if Suarez admitted it the defense they used is right up there with Mike Tysons lawyer saying any women that goes to his hotel room knows what to expect so she was up for it.
 
xibinim said:
RE - John Terry. So do videos clearly show him saying 'you're a blah blah'? I was under the impression he *may* have said the same thing but with 'did you think I said....' in front?
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The videos show he insulting him. Terrys defense say he said "I did not call you a black ****" They say the first section was not caught on the clip.

Such a shame they did not have a better clip and have the horrible **** bang to rights. I have a feeling he will worm out of this one too.
 
The trouble is you reap what you sow, Suarez has a history of cheating and generally not being very likeable, he makes a meal out of everything, just watching that match you could see he was LOVING getting in Evra's face, Evra is by no means innocent as he is just as despicable.

He admited using a word that many would say is racist, the whole "its fine in Uruguay" its a load of rubbish.
If I called someone a chav constantly and it ****ed them off my defence of "Well Im from Surrey thats just what we call these people" wouldn't stand up would it! Brilliant.

Kenny is a tool, he has provoked the thing, he has become a Wenger parody "I didnt see it, The lad is a good lad, I refuse to believe it blah blah blah." He may be an OK manager but he is so arrogant and convinced that the whole world is against him ala Wenger it is painful.

Good to see the ban, The fine is a bit of a joke, The real test will be what happens with Terry. Lets wait and see.
 
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