Suarez

Purdy · 1 Jan 2012 at 17:36

atpbx said:
How can anybody still be arguing that Suarez isnt a dirty horse faced racist cheat after this report is beyond me.

Dirty horse face :confused:

isn't that a bit racist?

Also the FA and Evra have specifically said he isn't a racist so don't which hole your pulling that out of.

BaZ87 · 1 Jan 2012 at 17:44

Purdy, you're not going to stop people calling him a racist. There's enough evidence for him to have been found to have called Evra negro in an offensive way and that in some peoples opinion is enough to label him a racist, regardless of whether it's right of them to do so or not.

Gustov · 1 Jan 2012 at 17:45

Purdy said:
Dirty horse face isn't that a bit racist?

Also the FA and Evra have specifically said he isn't a racist so don't which hole your pulling that out of.

Probably the same hole you learnt how to spell you're in!

Whoops, I posted again

Purdy · 1 Jan 2012 at 17:48

Gustov said:
Probably the same hole you learnt how to spell you're in!

Whoops, I posted again

Glad to see you agree it is as big amount of rubbish as my spelling then

Purdy · 1 Jan 2012 at 17:49

BaZ87 said:
Purdy, you're not going to stop people calling him a racist. There's enough evidence for him to have been found to have called Evra negro in an offensive way and that in some peoples opinion is enough to label him a racist, regardless of whether it's right of them to do so or not.

I believe he said he doesn't know how anyone can argue that he isn't a dirty horse faced racist, well it is pretty evident you can when the people charging him and the guy accusing him don't believe he is actually a racist.

Gustov · 1 Jan 2012 at 17:49

Purdy said:
Glad to see you agree it is as big amount of rubbish as my spelling then

Oh I didn't say I agreed

Purdy · 1 Jan 2012 at 17:51

Gustov said:
Oh I didn't say I agreed

You said probably, the FA would agree on that basis then

BaZ87 · 1 Jan 2012 at 17:52

Purdy said:
I believe he said he doesn't know how anyone can argue that he isn't a dirty horse faced racist, well it is pretty evident you can when the people charging him and the guy accusing him don't believe he is actually a racist.

As I said, regardless of whether it's right of them to do so, he's labeled as a racist by a section of people now. They're not going to change their opinion because the FA and Evra claim that they don't think Suarez is racist.

wedgie · 1 Jan 2012 at 17:53

That's the problem Suarez has given himself here. I don't think anybody with half a brain believes him to actually be a racist, as in he actively discriminates against and looks down on people from other races. But you don't have to be a member of the kkk to use racially charged language, and labelling him racist is an easy shorthand that many people will fall into the habit of using. In fairness the media have a responsibility to not do this. To the surprise of nobody, they failed.

Purdy · 1 Jan 2012 at 17:55

BaZ87 said:
As I said, regardless of whether it's right of them to do so, he's labeled as a racist by a section of people now. They're not going to change their opinion because the FA and Evra claim that they don't think Suarez is racist.

The point is though he said he doesn't understand how anyone can argue that he isn't a racist, well there are plenty arguments for him not being a racist whether he wishes to believe them or not.

BaZ87 · 1 Jan 2012 at 17:56

wedgie said:
That's the problem Suarez has given himself here. I don't think anybody with half a brain believes him to actually be a racist, as in he actively discriminates against and looks down on people from other races. But you don't have to be a member of the kkk to use racially charged language, and labelling him racist is an easy shorthand that many people will fall into the habit of using. In fairness the media have a responsibility to not do this. To the surprise of nobody, they failed.

I'm not sure the media failed in their task. They use sensationalist and provocative headlines for one good reason, to sell more newspapers.

wedgie · 1 Jan 2012 at 17:58

That assumes it is fine for them to only serve their own purposes. The very public outcry over the phone hacking is the most obvious example of them being very wrong in having that attitude.

BaZ87 · 1 Jan 2012 at 18:05

wedgie said:
That assumes it is fine for them to only serve their own purposes. The very public outcry over the phone hacking is the most obvious example of them being very wrong in having that attitude.

I wasn't assuming it's fine for them to only serve their own purpose but that is what they generally do.

There was only a public outcry over phone hacking once the Milly Dowler stuff came out. When the public thought it was just the likes of Andy Gray involved, there wasn't such a strong feeling from the public. I don't think newspapers are going to get much criticism outside of Liverpool for labeling a player that has used a racist remark as being a racist.

I'm sure they weighed up the risk of legal action and potentially how much it would have cost them if action was taken and successful, before printing their strories though.

wedgie · 1 Jan 2012 at 18:15

Of course it's what they do, I made the assumption myself that you weren't seriously trying to explain to me why they use sensationalist headlines

.

Everyone knows why they do it, they still have a responsibility to not cross these lines and for my liking don't get brought back down to earth anywhere near enough. That includes labelling Suarez a racist, as you say though it's unlikely anything will be done over it.

Owenb · 1 Jan 2012 at 20:32

Suarez probably made the comments in an attempt to wind up Evra, and it looks like it worked. 'Trash talk' happens in a lot of sports but Suarez went over the line and Evra had the right to call him up on it. If Suarez wants to clear his name he should go to Evra, apologise, call a press conference admit that he was wrong in what he did, he isn't a racist but accept what he said was racist(yes, there is a difference)- he was just been a**hole, and accept his punishment.

atpbx · 1 Jan 2012 at 20:46

Purdy said:
Dirty horse face isn't that a bit racist?

Also the FA and Evra have specifically said he isn't a racist so don't which hole your pulling that out of.

ROFL!

Show your reasoning behind that statement Batman, I'm just dying to see your working out.

You'll lose points for being any form of spasticity in your answer so be careful!

Raymond Lin · 1 Jan 2012 at 20:50

The funniest thing about this whole saga is actually how Liverpool fans can't handle the truth and admit one of their own is a racist.

We have the player admitting using the word at least once.
We all agree that is a racist because of the above.

So, what's there to argue here?

I know this isn't a criminal court but if it was a criminal court, the defendant will get a lesser sentence if plea guilty in the first instance. If he goes to trial and loses, he face getting the full sentence. If you apply is logic here, the punishment can be justify in a way as he and the club denied it til the very end.

BaZ87 · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:14

Raymond Lin said:
We have the player admitting using the word at least once.
We all agree that is a racist because of the above.

The panel accepted the evidence of the linguistic experts which claimed that, had the term negro been used in the way in which Suarez claimed then it wasn't racist nor had the intetntion to offend.

Suarez's admission to using the word isn't/wasn't conclusive proof that what he said was racist.

Raymond Lin · 1 Jan 2012 at 22:07

I'm sorry, but if we don't accept the evidence from the linguistic expert then who do we believe? Someone who changes his story? Or an expert who is appointed as a neutral capacity?

BaZ87 · 1 Jan 2012 at 22:23

Raymond Lin said:
I'm sorry, but if we don't accept the evidence from the linguistic expert then who do we believe? Someone who changes his story? Or an expert who is appointed as a neutral capacity?

Huh?

We are accepting the evidence from the linguistic experts.

The independent linguistic experts weren't asked to give an opinion on who they believed, they were asked to determine whether what was said in both Evra & Suarez's version of events could be considered racist and/or offensive. They found that if Suarez said what he claimed, it wasn't racist/offensive but if he said what Evra claimed, it was racist/offensive.

Your claim that Suarez's admission to saying negro is conclusive proof that he's racist is not supported by the linguistic experts.