Supplements the debate/discussion thread
- Thread starter Freefaller
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Caporegime
No omegas, I have good oil on most foods throughout the day.
I do have some multi vits at home but haven't taken any in a long while. I tend to have a fair whack of veg in the evenings anyway, and some in the daytime
Caporegime
It is a brand yeah, the one I have is hemp oil essentially. But it has various omegas present in it
Soldato
It's a brand, they actually make a variety of oils, but the one suggested to use on here is high in good omega oils. The idea being, a drizzle over each meal should reduce/remove the need for popping six hundred Omega capsules a day 
Caporegime
As above 
Costs me less as well, one bottle easily lasts a month
Costs me less as well, one bottle easily lasts a month
Do MP or one of those companies selling a tasting set e.g. enough for one shake of each of their flavours so you can decide what you want? 2.5-5kg of Hurricane XS is a big commitment to make to something you've never tasted before, and I don't really want to go with their Chocolate again as it's really quite sickly imo
Not sure if deliberate typo
It might just be the association - with the Hurricane XS (recovery stuff and creapure mixed in already) it's really hard to get the creapure stuff to mix in, which means at the end in particular you start getting lumps tickling your gag reflex. I'm gonna get a mixer for when I use it at school I think, I can't really stand it as is and I think that association has led to me finding even the smell of it revolting.
It wasn't bad at all when I first started having it but gradually I think having to worry about gagging each time I neck one started to get to me
Soldato
What you need is one of the shakers with the wire ball in it. REALLY helps mix shakes up so much finer and quicker.
Sciencedirect.com is actually very useful.
I've had a trawl this morning through the literature relating to protein consumption (I have a generic position on this and wanted to know if I was talking ****), beta alanine (this is quite popular and I wanted to understand why) and creatine (I use this and wanted to see what the specifics were behind it).
The findings below have been spoiler'd to minimise TL;DR, but are just a quick scan of literature in the respective areas. If you aren't interested, I won't be offended. I'm putting this down as a marker for my future reference more than anything else.
1: Short-duration β-alanine supplementation increases training volume and reduces subjective feelings of fatigue in college football players (Nutrition Research, vol 28, issue 1, Jan 2008)
SUMMARY: Beta Alanine helps with the development of muscle mass and power. At 4.5g/day.The purpose of this study was to examine the effect of 30 days of β-alanine supplementation in collegiate football players on anaerobic performance measures. Subjects were randomly divided into a supplement (β-alanine group [BA], 4.5 g•d−1 of β-alanine) or placebo (placebo group [P], 4.5 g•d−1 of maltodextrin) group. Supplementation began 3 weeks before preseason football training camp and continued for an additional 9 days during camp. Performance measures included a 60-second Wingate anaerobic power test and 3 line drills (200-yd shuttle runs with a 2-minute rest between sprints) assessed on day 1 of training camp. Training logs recorded resistance training volumes, and subjects completed questionnaires on subjective feelings of soreness, fatigue, and practice intensity. No difference was seen in fatigue rate in the line drill, but a trend (P = .07) was observed for a lower fatigue rate for BA compared with P during the Wingate anaerobic power test. A significantly higher training volume was seen for BA in the bench press exercise, and a trend (P = .09) for a greater training volume was seen for all resistance exercise sessions. In addition, subjective feelings of fatigue were significantly lower for BA than P. In conclusion, despite a trend toward lower fatigue rates during 60 seconds of maximal exercise, 3 weeks of β-alanine supplementation did not result in significant improvements in fatigue rates during high-intensity anaerobic exercise. However, higher training volumes and lower subjective feelings of fatigue in BA indicated that as duration of supplementation continued, the efficacy of β-alanine supplementation in highly trained athletes became apparent.
2: Effects of 8 weeks of creatine supplementation on exercise performance and fat-free weight in football players during training(Nutrition Research, Volume 19, Issue 2, February 1999, Pages 217–225)
SUMMARY: Creatine and Carbs help with the development of muscle mass and power.The purpose of this study was to examine the changes in bench press strength (BPS), vertical jump (VJ), 100 yd dash time, and fat-free weight (FFW) in football players following 8 weeks of supplementation with a carbohydrate placebo (CHO), creatine monohydrate (CM), or CM plus CHO. Using a double blind random design, 24 college football players were placed into one of three treatment conditions: CHO) 35g CHO; CM) 5.25g CM plus 1g CHO; or CM+CHO) 5.25g CM and 33g CHO. All treatments were similar in taste and were ingested four times per day for five consecutive days and twice daily thereafter. All subjects weight trained for 1 h and participated in 30 min of speed drills four times per week for 8 weeks. The CM+CHO group experienced significant (p<0.05) improvement in BPS, VJ, 100 yd dash time and FFW when compared to the CHO group. However, delta scores for the CM group were not significantly different from the CHO group. These data suggest that CHO taken with CM during training may be superior to training alone for enhancing exercise performance and FFW.
3: The Role of Nutritional Intake & Creatine Supplementation on Strength/Body Composition of Successful Division One CollegeFootball Players (Journal of the American Dietetic Association, Volume 97, Issue 9, Supplement, September 1997, Pages A14)
SUMMARY: Short term loading/maintenance use of creatine increases lean muscle mass, but does not necessarily help power output.Optimal nutrition and supplementation are often used to enhance performance. Thus, the purpose of this study was to examine the role kilocalorie (kcal) intake, diet composition and creatine monohydrate supplementation (CMS) had on strength/body composition of 28 NCAA division one football players during the same, intense 15-day training period. Nutritionally, athletes primarily consumed school cafeteria food (33/45 meals) though were permitted to eat ad libitum from any source. Daily diet forms, listing menu items and recommended intake based on body mass, were utilized. All food consumed was recorded by the athlete, either by marking number of servings, or by a write-in entry. Creatine monohydrate or a placebo was administered (random, double-blind design) in a “load” phase (20 grams/day, 7 days) and in a subsequent “maintenance” phase (10 grams/day, 8 days). Results indicated no significant difference between the groups for nutritional intake (kcals: p = 0.89; 5,162/5,203 kcal, mean macronutrients: p = 0.62; carbohydrate 61/58%, protein 18/19%, fat 22/23%), strength volume during the “load” phase (p = 0.98) or in a pre-post “max bench press output” during a combination “load-maintenance” phase of CMS (p = 0.19). No significant difference existed for skinfold body composition measurements (p = 0.79) but a significant increase in body mass was observed in the experimental group (p < 0.0003). {Note: A different group of teammates (n = 52; same design & cafeteria, nutrition not analyzed) revealed similar non-significant findings for strength volume (p = 0.96) but significance was found in pre-post max bench press output (p = 0.04)}. Three conclusions are warranted: (1) CMS in a typical “load” phase dose did not significantly improve strength volume compared to a placebo group. (2) Pre-post “maximal bench press output” was not significantly increased during 15 days of a “load-maintenance” phase of CMS, however trends appeared to be present. (3) Body mass with no concurrent increase in skinfold body fat thickness was significantly increased during 15 days of a “load-maintenance” phase of CMS.
4: Scientific basis and practical aspects of creatine supplementation for athletes (Nutrition, Volume 20, Issues 7–8, July–August 2004, Pages 609–614[
SUMMARY: Creatine and Carbs taken at the same time help with the development of muscle mass and power.A large number of studies have been published on creatine supplementation over the last decade. Many studies show that creatine supplementation in conjunction with resistance training augments gains in muscle strength and size. The underlying physiological mechanism(s) to explain this ergogenic effect remain unclear. Increases in muscle fiber hypertrophy and myosin heavy chain expression have been observed with creatine supplementation. Creatine supplementation increases acute weightlifting performance and training volume, which may allow for greater overload and adaptations to training. Creatine supplementation may also induce a cellular swelling in muscle cells, which in turn may affect carbohydrate and protein metabolism. Several studies point to the conclusion that elevated intramuscular creatine can enhance glycogen levels but an effect on protein synthesis/degradation has not been consistently detected. As expected there is a distribution of responses to creatine supplementation that can be largely explained by the degree of creatine uptake into muscle. Thus, there is wide interest in methods to maximize muscle creatine levels. A carbohydrate or carbohydrate/protein-induced insulin response appears to benefit creatine uptake. In summary, the predominance of research indicates that creatine supplementation represents a safe, effective, and legal method to enhance muscle size and strength responses to resistance training.
5: The Journal of Nutritional Biochemistry (Volume 8, Issue 2, February 1997, Pages 52–60).
SUMMARY: Training for strength/power/speed (i.e. gains) may require UP TO 1.8g/kg body mass of protein. Endurance athletes will go in for 1.2-1.4g/kg/day.Current dietary protein requirements were determined using essentially sedentary individuals and, therefore, are designed for the general population. Unfortunately, the recommendations from these studies have been applied to athletes as well. Because of the vast differences in daily energy expenditure alone this would seem to be a naive approach. Moreover in recent years, considerable evidence has accumulated on athletes, primarily those involved at each end of the exercise intensity-duration continuum, i.e., strength (weight lifting) to endurance (running, cycling, or swimming), suggesting that dietary protein needs may be greater by as much as 125% in comparison to sedentary individuals. The additional protein may be necessary for use as an auxiliary fuel for endurance exercise and as a supplementary source of amino acids to build and/or maintain the large muscle mass present in those who strength train. In addition, although more speculative, it is possible that other constituents in high quality protein sources, i.e., creatine, conjugated linoleic acid, carnosine, etc. may also be beneficial. Definitive dietary recommendations for various athletic populations must await further study, but the mass of current evidence indicates that individuals involved in strength/power/speed activities may benefit from intakes of about 1.7 to 1.8 g protein • g body mass−1 • day−1 (approximately 112–125% higher than the sedentary recommendation) and those who participate in endurance activities from about 1.2–1.4 g • kg−1 • d−1 (approximately 50 to 75% higher than the sedentary recommendation). Assuming total energy intake is sufficient to cover expenditure, these intakes can be obtained from a diet consisting of about 10% energy intake as protein. Some athletes may not consume this amount of protein, especially those who consume inadequate energy (dieters or those trying to maintain an arbitrary body mass for their activity, i.e., gymnasts, dancers, wrestlers, etc.), those who are growing (children, adolescents, women who are pregnant), or those who select diets which may exclude high quality protein sources (vegetarians and seniors). Despite the common practice of consuming greater amounts of protein (2–4 g • kg−1 • d−1) among strength athletes in particular, few data exist suggesting that this has any further benefit, i.e., there appears to be a ceiling effect. Finally, the concerns expressed routinely about liver or kidney problems with high protein diets have little scientific support; however, the easy accessibility of individual amino acid supplements poses a potentially serious threat because there are likely a variety of confounding interactions and the effects of mega doses of single amino acids are largely untested. Future studies are needed to fine tune these recommendations.
6: Influence of weight training exercise and modification of hormonal response on skeletal muscle growth (Journal of Science and Medicine in Sport, Volume 4, Issue 4, December 2001, Pages 431–446)
SUMMARY: Something I didn’t know... training without carbs in your system appears to not inhibit cortisol production, which is deleterious to muscle growth. So training fasted may not be a good idea for resistance purposes.To investigate the influence of carbohydrate (CHO) consumption on the acute hormonal response, and chronic adaptation to weight lifting exercise, two studies were conducted. Following a four-hour fast, seven young men (21.3 ± 3.5 y) performed (on two occasions) a nine-station weight lifting protocol, completing 3 sets of 10 repetitions at 75% of IRM (series 1). Randomly assigned, one session included the ingestion of a non-caloric placebo, and the other, a 6% CHO solution. For series 2, two groups of young men (21.3±1.5 y) participated in 12 weeks of progressive resistance weight training. Training for one group included the ingestion of a non-caloric placebo, and the other, a 6% CHO solution. In series 1, weight lifting exercise with CHO ingestion significantly (p < 0.05) elevated blood glucose and plasma insulin levels above baseline, as well as that occurring with the placebo. This resulted in a significant blunting of the cortisol response (7% with CHO compared to 99% with placebo). These findings indicate that CHO consumption during weight lifting exercise can modify the acute hormonal response to exercise. With series 2, CHO consumption continued to blunt the cortisol response to exercise during the twelve weeks of training. This is in contrast to significantly elevated cortisol levels observed for the placebo control group. Corresponding with the modified response patterns were differences in muscle growth. Weight training exercise with CHO ingestion resulted in significantly greater gains in both type I (19.1%) and type II (22.5%) muscle fibre area than weight training exercise alone. The difference in the cortisol response accounted for 74% of the variance (r= 0.8579, p= 0.006) of change in type I muscle fibre area, and 52.3% of the variance (r= 0.7231, p= 0.043) of change in type II muscle fibre area. These findings suggest that the modification of the cortisol response associated with CHO ingestion can positively impact the skeletal muscle hypertrophic adaptation to weigh training.
nice post bru
what do you know about l-glutamine?
Aside from sounding like an amino acid, not much.
A quick search would indicate that it's helpfull when training for prolonged periods, I.e. for cutting, but that is pretty much it. There are manufacturers pimping the suggested link with HGH, but I can't see anything factual on it at the moment.
Doesn't mean it doesn't, but equally, doesn't mean it does.
A quick search would indicate that it's helpfull when training for prolonged periods, I.e. for cutting, but that is pretty much it. There are manufacturers pimping the suggested link with HGH, but I can't see anything factual on it at the moment.
Doesn't mean it doesn't, but equally, doesn't mean it does.
The balls don't do ****. I've been through this a few times. Ball literally makes no difference. Quicker? Doubt it. Maybe 1.034 seconds faster to mix. But now you have something extra to clean and it sounds like you broke something when you're shaking.
It took me 2 years to figure that out. Once I lost the ball, did it without and realised it was exactly the same. Threw the ball away once I found it.
Glutamine:
The one article I could find in a short space of time, specifically describing the effects of the amino acid:
The amino acid has been shown to protect the muscle tissue of those who are critically ill or suffering from muscle wastage through injury, but it would appear its effect is dubious in healthy, well-fed individuals.
What WAS interesting about this article, however, was that it was by my former lecturer. Small world.
Other popular supplements that for which there is no real consensus in the scientific community would be:
- HMB (I'm not even going to try and copy and paste the name of the compound); no real effect in trained individuals, through to noticeable effects in those in untrained individuals;
- AAKG: not much appears to happen with this.
HOwever, first glance for BCAAs (confirming what has already been posted):
- BCAAs: inhibit cortisol and allow the body to 'carry on as normal' when deprived of glycogen. Effect when well-fed is unclear at this point.
The one article I could find in a short space of time, specifically describing the effects of the amino acid:
J. Nutr. 2008 Oct;138(10):2045S-2049S. Dosing and efficacy of glutamine supplementation in human exercise and sport training. Gleeson M. said:
The amino acid has been shown to protect the muscle tissue of those who are critically ill or suffering from muscle wastage through injury, but it would appear its effect is dubious in healthy, well-fed individuals.
What WAS interesting about this article, however, was that it was by my former lecturer. Small world.
Other popular supplements that for which there is no real consensus in the scientific community would be:
- HMB (I'm not even going to try and copy and paste the name of the compound); no real effect in trained individuals, through to noticeable effects in those in untrained individuals;
- AAKG: not much appears to happen with this.
HOwever, first glance for BCAAs (confirming what has already been posted):
- BCAAs: inhibit cortisol and allow the body to 'carry on as normal' when deprived of glycogen. Effect when well-fed is unclear at this point.
Man of Honour
This, the ball shakers are terrible
Soldato
You're both liars. You just want all the balls for yourself (fnarr)..........
Srs tho, I find they work great. They 100% stop me from getting clumps of Recovery XS at the bottom of my shaker when it's been sat there dry all day.
Srs tho, I find they work great. They 100% stop me from getting clumps of Recovery XS at the bottom of my shaker when it's been sat there dry all day.
Caporegime
They obviously can't shake their jimmies properly