Supplements the debate/discussion thread

mrthingyx said:
Just buy one bag and see what it's like.

Assuming the effect myself, LiE and Syla5 are seeing is real, it may well be a great way of recovering in the sleep post-workout.

Currently, I'd look at its effect as subjective at this point - as there is no control for this 'study' it's entirely down to opinion. :)

Put it this way: I've bought another two bags of the stuff.
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Ta, will report my feedback shortly. Picked up some more BCAA's too for intra workout, can never have enough shakers either. 10% code and £28 worth of points bring the bill down nicely.
 
Delvis said:
Daft question alert.

If not taking a PWO shake after training, ie immediately after or in the first hour or so, is it worth still having the dextrose? I'm aware the carbs etc will need to be put elsewhere, I just wondering if the Dextrose had any real place if taking it later in the day (as just a standard whey+water shake)

Flame away.
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Why no PWO shake?? its easy, simple, and beneficial to have one. All your doing by not having one is missing out on benefits and having to make up the cals elsewhere at a less oppurtune time.

If your looking to reduce cals as your want to trim down a bit i would consider cutting out something other then your PWO. If your looking to cut down on supplementation then fair enough ditch it.




OAKG - as you say Mr Habibi the results thus far are totally subjective, but surely we could use our pre OAKG supplementation as a control for comparison? I mean nothing else will be changing for me so its a reasonable comparison point surely?
 
TPW dude

you can use my ref code DP2602 and pick yourself up a free sample bag of another flavour as well if you havent ordered from them before, but i think you have.
 
Syla5 said:
Why no PWO shake?? its easy, simple, and beneficial to have one. All your doing by not having one is missing out on benefits and having to make up the cals elsewhere at a less oppurtune time.

If your looking to reduce cals as your want to trim down a bit i would consider cutting out something other then your PWO. If your looking to cut down on supplementation then fair enough ditch it.
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It's easy, simple, and not actually needed if you are eating enough food throughout the day or soon after a workout.

Please elaborate on what benefits I am missing out on though, because as far as I am aware the 'PWO window' is something that has been over exaggerated over the years and downing a shake as soon as you've finished a workout is no different than eating not long after :p

I'm not cutting down cals at all, if I wanted to trim down I would just adjust my overall diet :)
 
Delvis said:
It's easy, simple, and not actually needed if you are eating enough food throughout the day or soon after a workout.

Please elaborate on what benefits I am missing out on though, because as far as I am aware the 'PWO window' is something that has been over exaggerated over the years and downing a shake as soon as you've finished a workout is no different than eating not long after :p

I'm not cutting down cals at all, if I wanted to trim down I would just adjust my overall diet :)
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The PWO window is definitely not as small as many suggest, but there has been seen to be a peak in the bodies ability to sythesis proteins, as well as the muscles ability to utilise the carbs due to some funky behaviour within the cells after heavy resistance training (tGlut translocation etc), from about 30mins to an hour post workout is where you peak, for about an hour or so. Sorry i am not very scientific in my terms, but this has been talked about at length by other, more knowledgeable and wise members then myself who have made these very same points.

I am not saying a PWO is required, i am saying that in most situations it is the easiest source, and gives you the desired hit of protein and carbs, not that you cant get this from a snack.

If your ditching the PWO what are you putting in to your diet to replace it then?
 
Interesting. What about if you dont eat anything for a couple of hours after training? does it give you increased fat loss potential?
 
The protein synthesis "peak" lasts a good 24hrs. :)

However, it's a balance on hormonal responses for maximum uptake by the muscles. I say a good 1-2hrs after a work out is an ideal time to eat / have post work out nutrition. Immediately PWO you're actually adding little benefit and actually potentially minimising your nutrient uptake.
 
If you eat regularly it shouldn't be an issue as you'll still be digesting your last meal during and after the workout and then as long as you eat again within an hour or two as most protein sources take 90 mins-4 hours to digest.
 
Krono5 said:
If you eat regularly it shouldn't be an issue as you'll still be digesting your last meal during and after the workout and then as long as you eat again within an hour or two as most protein sources take 90 mins-4 hours to digest.
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Tell that to people who do Intermittent Fasting.
 
Syla5 said:
OAKG - as you say Mr Habibi the results thus far are totally subjective, but surely we could use our pre OAKG supplementation as a control for comparison? I mean nothing else will be changing for me so its a reasonable comparison point surely?
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For sure, on a personal basis.

Stuff like creatine has a good double-blind/single-blind/control study base showing its efficacy, as does beta alanine, which is why I have both of those sitting in my draw.

However, stuff like OAKG elicits an interesting physiological response when looked at in a vacuum: there iis next to no research on it at all, and therefore very little evidence of the practical effects of that response. As you, LiE and myself have reported, there is a noticeable reduction of DOMS, etc. when taken at night after a workout. However, this reduction has not been measured objectively or quantitatively, or against a control.

So whilst you (as Syla5), LiE and I know this stuff works, I - as a former scientist - will always say that something works from my personal experience, but has not been proven as part of an objective study with controlled variables, etc.

TL;DR

It works for you, me and LiE and we know what has changed/what hasn't and can recommend it on a personal basis.

I just worry that I run the risk of sounding like another imbecile recommending Hydroxycut or something... :D
 
Delvis said:
But dude....LOOK!!!

kDTOtpe.jpg


I MEAN LOOK!!!!! GAINZ!
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About 4-5 years ago, Grenade, only did 1 product - ECA stack.
That stuff was useless.
1 pro plus tablet from Tescos was more powerful than 1 tablet of Grenade (which included Ephedrine)!
Without doubt the worst ECA stack I've ever had.
I'm not sure if Thermo Detonator is the same as their old ECA stack. I can only assume that the new version is weaker (perhaps no caffeine?).

These days I order ephedrine tabs on their own and I buy aspirin and caffeine from Tescos. This is powerful and I can really feel my body temperature and heart rate rise. No other thermogenic product comes close.
 
davestar_delux said:
I'm curious about this as well and if it is possible to get legitimate horse-meat in the UK? The price difference is certainly appealing.
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I'd imagine that horse-meat would be available quite cheaply, right now, due to bad press. Though its a case of finding legitimate sources.

It brings a whole new meaning to the phrase, "I could eat a horse" :D
 
sunama said:
About 4-5 years ago, Grenade, only did 1 product - ECA stack.
That stuff was useless.
1 pro plus tablet from Tescos was more powerful than 1 tablet of Grenade (which included Ephedrine)!
Without doubt the worst ECA stack I've ever had.
I'm not sure if Thermo Detonator is the same as their old ECA stack. I can only assume that the new version is weaker (perhaps no caffeine?).

These days I order ephedrine tabs on their own and I buy aspirin and caffeine from Tescos. This is powerful and I can really feel my body temperature and heart rate rise. No other thermogenic product comes close.
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*sigh*

That's because it's beating the pants out of your sympathetic nervous system. Yes, it's thermogenic in that it goes for muscle fat deposits (i.e. not subcutaneous fat), but it's also a controlled drug (i.e. not available for general consumption). I'm guessing you don't havea prescription for it?
 
Freefaller said:
The coconut oil company I ACTUALLY recommended after a friend's suggestion was this one: http://www.coconutoilcompany.com/
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Blimey FF, that's expensive.

I bought some KTC coconut oil. 250ml, £1.
[The oil you have stated in your link - including delivery is just under £7/250ml]
KTC oil tastes rancid and certainly isn't to be eaten as is.
It is certainly not delicious.
Drizzled over hot vegetables - its fine.

I'll try out the biona coconut oil as that seems to get good reviews. I shall report back later. I want to know if the el cheapo KTC oil is any worse than the expensive stuff.

I did buy some thick and creamy coconut milk. This stuff was thick and hard at low temperature (like coconut oil), though I'm not sure if my supermarket sells it any more. Other brands of coconut milk are thin and lower quality. This was delicious and good enough to be eaten "neat".
 
I only have coconut oil in my coffee and the ktc stuff compared to the my protein stuff is a richer coconut flavour and tastes really nice. Not sure how it goes with food, but as an addition to coffee it is a much cheaper alternative.
 
sunama said:
Blimey FF, that's expensive.

I bought some KTC coconut oil. 250ml, £1.
[The oil you have stated in your link - including delivery is just under £7/250ml]
KTC oil tastes rancid and certainly isn't to be eaten as is.
It is certainly not delicious.
Drizzled over hot vegetables - its fine.

I'll try out the biona coconut oil as that seems to get good reviews. I shall report back later. I want to know if the el cheapo KTC oil is any worse than the expensive stuff.

I did buy some thick and creamy coconut milk. This stuff was thick and hard at low temperature (like coconut oil), though I'm not sure if my supermarket sells it any more. Other brands of coconut milk are thin and lower quality. This was delicious and good enough to be eaten "neat".
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If it tastes rancid do you really think it's in any way quality?
 
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