Supplements the debate/discussion thread

[IrishChr1s]

I forgot eggs had bad cholesterol. Fuarrrr

Eggs actually have no effect on serum cholesterol levels.

 

[tom_e]

Eggs actually have no effect on serum cholesterol levels.

We know but unfortunately there's no point trying to be sensible with Nate.

 

[IrishChr1s]

all essential nutrients come from the plant kingdom, and the plant kingdom alone. instead of feeding animals the plants that we should be eating directly, and filtering those nutrients through their bodies, eat what comes from the earth.

Better stop taking that B12 supplement the doc prescribed then.

 

[Freefaller]

Eggs actually have no effect on serum cholesterol levels.

Delvis was actually being sarcastic However you're relatively new top this thread so you probably aren't aware of the banter between its regular members. I'm enjoying your contributions in other threads though - nice to see there are other people who are clued up on nutrition. You'll find there's a few of us in the Sports Arena. Unfortunately you do have to deal with the likes of Nate who think dietary fat = bad, and that vegetables alone = good, and that refined foods like pasta is also perfectly good over fish/meat/eggs.

 

[IrishChr1s]

Delvis was actually being sarcastic However you're relatively new top this thread so you probably aren't aware of the banter between its regular members. I'm enjoying your contributions in other threads though - nice to see there are other people who are clued up on nutrition. You'll find there's a few of us in the Sports Arena. Unfortunately you do have to deal with the likes of Nate who think dietary fat = bad, and that vegetables alone = good, and that refined foods like pasta is also perfectly good over fish/meat/eggs.

Yea I've been a bit slow over the past few days, I swear wine makes me lethargic, or the food babies I've been putting away.

my background is in nutrition and nutrition research, I'll try to throw my 2 pence in when I can.

 

[Freefaller]

I look forward to it

 

[Nate Silvers]

You're getting tiresome now Nate. Repeating and regurgitating the same play school pseudoscience isn't going to convince anyone here. We know more than you, and you're not even willing to pay attention to scientific facts, so you go an do what you want, but debating against us, is serving you or us no good. By all means start your own thread, but people in here are actually interested in facts not evangelistic vegan ignorance.

You might know more than me but if you're telling me meat, eggs and dairy are healthy, then you lose your credibility as someone to be giving health advice. Many people on here would greatly benefit going high carb vegan. It's not fiction it's fact, just look at all the high carb nutritionists, all lean and fit VS the low-carb paleo movement, overweight and sick.

Eggs actually have no effect on serum cholesterol levels.

No of course not. The cholesterol in eggs is just burned off if you wiggle your ears.

Hens periods are very healthy just ask sally Fallon.

Better stop taking that B12 supplement the doc prescribed then.

B12 is not a vegan issue. 40% of the US is deficient. Is 40% of the US vegan? No. As a meat, dairy and egg eater you could have a raging B12 deficiency and not even know it.

B12 is produced by the body and to get an outside source is next to impossible in today's world. It's a bacteria found in earth and water but our world is too clean to get it. Everything is washed, eat unwashed organic vegetables, it's where the animals get it.

B12 is destroyed by heat too so you're all killing it.

You don't even need science here, just use logic. For instance it's funny how the atkins products have B12 in them but they support a low-carb diet. Also a lot of pets foods have it in the top ingredients. You can even get B12 shots for your dog, cat and rat. Just ask any vet. Look at the health magazines promoting B12 in their products, are they vegan magazines? No. Thousands of non vegan athletes are taking B12 shots too.

Gary Yourofsky had a great video on it.

The meat and dairy industries are always putting out propaganda: "What about protein? What about B12?" You'll notice that nobody ever asks a question: "What about cobalt? What about chromium? What about fluorine? The reason why people don't ask questions like that is 'cause there's not propaganda about where you're gonna get your cobalt from. But there's propaganda about "if you go vegan you'll never get B12".

 

[Skunkworks]

We evolved for hundreds of thousands of years as omnivores. What you're suggesting is no different to Paleo, i.e. just cutting out many beneficial food groups.

 

[grudas]

dude.. GO AWAY

 

[Freefaller]

You might know more than me but if you're telling me meat, eggs and dairy are healthy, then you lose your credibility as someone to be giving health advice. Many people on here would greatly benefit going high carb vegan. It's not fiction it's fact, just look at all the high carb nutritionists, all lean and fit VS the low-carb paleo movement, overweight and sick.



No of course not. The cholesterol in eggs is just burned off if you wiggle your ears.

Hens periods are very healthy just ask sally Fallon.




B12 is not a vegan issue. 40% of the US is deficient. Is 40% of the US vegan? No. As a meat, dairy and egg eater you could have a raging B12 deficiency and not even know it.

B12 is produced by the body and to get an outside source is next to impossible in today's world. It's a bacteria found in earth and water but our world is too clean to get it. Everything is washed, eat unwashed organic vegetables, it's where the animals get it.

B12 is destroyed by heat too so you're all killing it.

You don't even need science here, just use logic. For instance it's funny how the atkins products have B12 in them but they support a low-carb diet. Also a lot of pets foods have it in the top ingredients. You can even get B12 shots for your dog, cat and rat. Just ask any vet. Look at the health magazines promoting B12 in their products, are they vegan magazines? No. Thousands of non vegan athletes are taking B12 shots too.

Gary Yourofsky had a great video on it.

And you say I lack credibility when you post this sort of thing?

You carry on eating your heavily refined processed foods, and I'll keep eating my well balanced, Mediterranean based diets with plenty of protein (meat, fish, egg), essential fatty acids, vegetables, fruits and complex carbs.

My cholesterol is bang on, with a high ratio of HDL to LDL, my bodyfat is low, with high percentage of lean muscle, good thoracic capacity, decent blood pressure and good VO2max capacity. My hormonal balance is good, good insulin sensitivity, decent test levels, and a good blood/lipid profile.

So I must be doing something right no?

 

[sunama]

It's not fiction it's fact, just look at all the high carb nutritionists, all lean and fit VS the low-carb paleo movement, overweight and sick.

A lot of people in Hollywood use the low carb diet and they are amongst the most beautiful people in the World.
In fact, I was watching a TV program about a year ago, which stated that it is getting difficult in Hollywood to find food menus which are high in carbs. People there, love low carb diets, because they are proven to work.

These high fat, high protein, low carb diets are proven to work.

 

[sunama]

dude.. GO AWAY

You mean he shouldn't post, because his opinion differs from your's?
Tut tut.

The last time I checked this was an open/free forum, to promote discussion and debate.

 

[mrthingyx]

And you say I lack credibility when you post this sort of thing?

You carry on eating your heavily refined processed foods, and I'll keep eating my well balanced, Mediterranean based diets with plenty of protein (meat, fish, egg), essential fatty acids, vegetables, fruits and complex carbs.

My cholesterol is bang on, with a high ratio of HDL to LDL, my bodyfat is low, with high percentage of lean muscle, good thoracic capacity, decent blood pressure and good VO2max capacity. My hormonal balance is good, good insulin sensitivity, decent test levels, and a good blood/lipid profile.

So I must be doing something right no?

@Mods: can this conversation be taken into the La Cuisine area because it is not really about sports, performance or anything of the sort. And as it has been continually restated without any deviation, it is bordering dangerously on either deliberate trolling or pointless spam?

@Nate: I am still interested to hear how this impacts your performance, but not in your perspective, as you don't really seem to be either listening or thinking.

 

[Indigo]

You mean he shouldn't post, because his opinion differs from your's?
Tut tut.

The last time I checked this was an open/free forum, to promote discussion and debate.

Nate shouldn't post because it's constant drivel posted as a means to preach his diet to others.

By all means have an opinion and stick by it to a certain degree but to out right dismiss anything anyone else says otherwise is quite simply the easiest way to show how stupid you are.

We should all be here to learn and adapt from each other based on shared knowledge and genuine interest. All Nate seems to do is shoot down meat eaters and preach his vegan-ism and argue with anyone that disagrees.

 

[grudas]

You mean he shouldn't post, because his opinion differs from your's?
Tut tut.

The last time I checked this was an open/free forum, to promote discussion and debate.

Nate shouldn't post because it's constant drivel posted as a means to preach his diet to others.

By all means have an opinion and stick by it to a certain degree but to out right dismiss anything anyone else says otherwise is quite simply the easiest way to show how stupid you are.

We should all be here to learn and adapt from each other based on shared knowledge and genuine interest. All Nate seems to do is shoot down meat eaters and preach his vegan-ism and argue with anyone that disagrees.

thank you.. sums up what I would have posted anyways.. I don't mean to say "go away because I don't agree with you"

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

Gary Yourofsky had a great video on it.

Just Googled him expecting to see the usual results for famous activists and lo and behold he's got convictions for assault, he actively encourages violence against humans that don't follow the vegan path, he's been banned from a number of countries and has been categorized as an international terrorist. Great ambassador for the Vegan cult Nate.

 

[Freefaller]

@Mods: can this conversation be taken into the La Cuisine area because it is not really about sports, performance or anything of the sort. And as it has been continually restated without any deviation, it is bordering dangerously on either deliberate trolling or pointless spam?

@Nate: I am still interested to hear how this impacts your performance, but not in your perspective, as you don't really seem to be either listening or thinking.

Yes you're right - in fact, I'm going to delete any non related post from now on.

I said to Nate to start his own thread if he wants to - but this is detracting from a very useful thread about supplementation and not about diet or what concept of food you have.

 

[spoffle]

I always find the way vegans act about animals to be quite amusing, as well as slightly disturbing, "IT'S OKAY FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO".

You can get vegan pet food for dogs and cats, which is just disgusting, especially for cats as they need meat for survival more so than dogs.

 

[iamtheoneneo]

Just Googled him expecting to see the usual results for famous activists and lo and behold he's got convictions for assault, he actively encourages violence against humans that don't follow the vegan path, he's been banned from a number of countries and has been categorized as an international terrorist. Great ambassador for the Vegan cult Nate.

I dont want to get into this too much BUT Gary Yourofsky is pretty much responsible for pushing me over the edge to go vegi, and I dont regret it one bit. (over 2 years now) , hes had a troubled past but he is knowledgeable about the subject and should be taken seriously.

Vegan though ...... id rather not.
In other news : Holland and Barrett have some ON 500g protein for about £12 on sale atm if peps are running low and still waiting for their online orders to come in.

 

[IrishChr1s]

B12 is not a vegan issue. 40% of the US is deficient. Is 40% of the US vegan? No. As a meat, dairy and egg eater you could have a raging B12 deficiency and not even know it.

B12 is produced by the body and to get an outside source is next to impossible in today's world. It's a bacteria found in earth and water but our world is too clean to get it. Everything is washed, eat unwashed organic vegetables, it's where the animals get it.

I just don't know where to start with this drivel, in all fairness Nate, I applaud you for thinking about the prevention rather than the cure, if more people had the "knowledge" you have the world would be a better place, no?

OK where to begin. and ill keep this on topic as Nate takes a B12 supplement.

Vitamin B12, is only found NATURALLY in foods of animal origin, for instance, meat, poultry, fish, eggs and dairy products.

The B12 supps/fortified foods/cereals contain cyanocolbalamin, the synthetic form, which works perfect in the body as its converted to the active form methylcobalamin, used in methionine production to homocysteine and the folate cycle. Very important processes, and probably why you doctor was concerned.

The RDAfor B12 is around 1-2.8ug/day, whereas the TYPICAL western diet provides around 3ug+, so you do see why this is a vegan issue, that doctor wasn't wrong in getting your levels checked, but your description on "he pulled me back in and checked my levels, bang they were fine" comes across a bit pseudo science, did he take bloods? urine? perform any tests while you where there that magically gave a number of adequate B12 status?

You do realise there is a direct and indirect measurements that need done in order for a B12 levels to be established, and something that cannot be done in a GP's office, not that I'm aware of at this stage.

Low B12 is highly common in elderly people, why? are they vegan too? no, mainly due to a loss of intrinsic factor (1-2%), or the majority is malabsorbtion (30-40%) issues or lack of food intake. This is why we need supplements and why the health industry is booming with absolute gash advice from people who read blogs or nutrition websites and believe the first thing they read.