Switching to SSD. Large vs 2 small's

scotslad said:
thanks a lot mikeO,;)

I think I will defo be going for the OCZ 256GB Vertex 4 SSD then ;) (unless someone else butts in with another suggestion as they sometimes do, lol lol :)
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I prefer Crucial purely because manufacturer RMA is based in this country, if long term ownership is a consideration.
 
lol,

you guys have blown my mind now man with these different options which I appreciate by the way ;)

But now I am more confused, if you read back on my setup and look at my signature etc you will see what I am after, basically I want the fastest SSD for my price range which is maximum 300-ish, but as the larger drives of like 512GB are way out of my price range then it has to be the 256GB models because of the price, so thats that part sorted.

Now you'z have gave great opinions which I said is appreciated very much, but it makes me wonder now what one really is the fastest drive, right now you guys have quoted so far the :>

OCZ 256GB Vertex 4 SSD
Samsung 830
Crucial M4

The money for any of these isnt a problem, infact its working out a lot cheaper than I thought, I just wanted to know what is the best and fastest for my motherboard and setup, I also need the bits to fit the SSD in my HAF932 case.

Again, I will leave it with you guys to discuss and then I shall make my order, my money wont be ready until the end of the week anyway, so I am not in a mad rush, but would still be a good idea to know what I am ordering beforehand :)

p.s
do these drives need any special cables, I got 6Gb sata cables with the motherboard, but I dont recall any power cables or anything like that ?
 
"but it makes me wonder now what one really is the fastest drive"

Define "fastest"!?!

I would still say that looking at all the tests (and going by my own personal experience) and considering the drives ability to handle both compressible and in-compressible data, then I would still say out of the three that you mention, that the Vertex 4 is the fastest overall. Now whether you would notice this in day -to-day use is debatable and has been the subject of many, many, many threads on the various PC techie forums.
The Vertex 4 also has a 5 year warranty and higher IOPS across the range than either of the other two drives. Also now that OCZ makes it own controller, any firmware upgrades / bugs should (one would hope) be sorted pretty quick.

Though as I've said before, any of the three drives would be a nice upgrade. Pretty much toss a coin and press that "buy now" button ;););)

As to cables. Any decent SATA data cable should be fine, though if you have one that states "SATA 3" etc. then use that. Power cable wise, they just take a standard SATA power cable (identical to a mech. HD).
 
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Ok MikeO,

You've made me not need to flip a coin on this then, it will be the OCZ 256GB Vertex 4 SSD then, thanks ;)

About the firmware upgrade, could I simply do that this way, install windows onto the drive and then run the OCZ Toolbox as stated in the guide I posted earlier and then just reinstall windows again afterwards ?

I dont mind doing it that way at all as windows doesnt take very long installing anyways.

Plus, I have spare sata 3 cables too, so I am sorted with that, only thing I need to check is if I have a spare old style standard power cable (think I have), thats if I decide to keep using the old sata drives for backup, if not then i will defo have a power cable, lol.

Does anyone know, if I was to use these 3 drives, the SSD & 2 x old sata hd's, what order would I plug them in on the ports on my motherboard, I know the difference between the ones for SSD's and old style sata drives, just not too sure in what order they would be plugged into the ports, anyone know ?? (http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8Z77V_DELUXE/). ;)
 
Hello again

"About the firmware upgrade, could I simply do that this way, install windows onto the drive and then run the OCZ Toolbox as stated in the guide I posted earlier and then just reinstall windows again afterwards ?"

To be honest, not quite sure why you would want to do it like this!? If you don't have another system that you can connect your SSD as a secondary, then just install Windows to any old HD as a temporary step to allow your to flash/sort your SSD attached as a secondary.

Depends on what version of the firmware your SSD comes with. If it comes with firmware version 1.4, then I'm pretty sure you can flash it if it's you primary drive (IE. non-destructive flash), if it's earlier (IE. a lot of drives still appear to be coming with version 1.3, my 128GB did last week) then it's a two stage process and the first flash "is destructive" (IE. will wipe your drive!). In this case, you would really need to use the LINUX based tool/s that OCZ recommend.

see http://www.ocztechnology.com/ssd_tools/OCZ_Vertex_4_and_Agility_4/
and pay VERY CLOSE ATTENTION to step 2. that says "Shutdown and restart the system" this does not mean just restart your system, they do DEFINATELY mean shutdown your system (in fact I would switch off at the mains and leave it 5 minutes) before re-booting. Not being funny when I point this out, but a number of folks have got themselves into trouble by just doing a system restart between flashes.

To be totally honest, this is so much easier if you first connect your SSD as a secondary drive to an existing system.

They also recommend that when using the toolbox, that you use the standard MS AHCI drivers that Windows 7 installs by default. If you want to try the Intel RST drivers, install them at a later stage. Though to be honest, I had no problems flashing my drive with RST 10.5.0.1027 installed.

Connect your SSD to the first SATA 6Gb/s port (the grey ones). Connect your other drives to any of the blue SATA 3Gb/s ports.

PS. If your mech HD's only have molex power connectors, then these must be pretty old (time to replace maybe?). Though maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick here, is it that your PSU only has molex power cables and no modern SATA power cables? If so, then you can get molex>SATA power cable convertors.
 
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mikeo said:
Hello again

"About the firmware upgrade, could I simply do that this way, install windows onto the drive and then run the OCZ Toolbox as stated in the guide I posted earlier and then just reinstall windows again afterwards ?"

Depends on what version of the firmware your SSD comes with. If it comes with firmware version 1.4, then I'm pretty sure you can flash it if it's you primary drive (IE. non-destructive flash), if it's earlier (IE. a lot of drives still appear to be coming with version 1.3, my 128GB did last week) then it's a two stage process and the first flash "is destructive" (IE. will wipe your drive!). In this case, you would really need to use the LINUX based tool/s that OCZ recommend.

see http://www.ocztechnology.com/ssd_tools/OCZ_Vertex_4_and_Agility_4/
and pay VERY CLOSE ATTENTION to step 2. that says "Shutdown and restart the system" this does not mean just restart your system, they do DEFINATELY mean shutdown your system (in fact I would switch off at the mains and leave it 5 minutes) before re-booting. Not being funny when I point this out, but a number of folks have got themselves into trouble by just doing a system restart between flashes.

To be totally honest, this is so much easier if you first connect your SSD as a secondary drive to an existing system.

They also recommend that when using the toolbox, that you use the standard MS AHCI drivers that Windows 7 installs by default. If you want to try the Intel RST drivers, install them at a later stage. Though to be honest, I had no problems flashing my drive with RST 10.6.0.1027 installed.

Connect your SSD to the first SATA 6Gb/s port (the grey ones). Connect your other drives to any of the blue SATA 3Gb/s ports.

PS. If your mech HD's only have molex power connectors, then these must be pretty old (time to replace maybe?). Though maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick here, is it that your PSU only has molex power cables and no modern SATA power cables? If so, then you can get molex>SATA power cable convertors.
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hmmmm:confused:

What I will do to start with is ask the company before or during ordering what version of firmware is on it and then I will take it from there, thanks a lot for your help mate, much appreciated;)
 
scotslad said:
hmmmm:confused:

What I will do to start with is ask the company before or during ordering what version of firmware is on it and then I will take it from there, thanks a lot for your help mate, much appreciated;)
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It's really not as difficult as it seems. Pretty much all SSD manufacturers will recommend you flash your SSD as a secondary drive. Depends a lot of what's in the firmware update and how good their flashing tool is etc. Obviously you'll appreciate updating the firmware in any device carries risks, hence why it's sensible to only do it if actually required (which in this case it is) and to do it the safest way possible. Wish I had a fiver for everytime someone glibly (for no real reason) updates their motherboard BIOS and ends up bricking it. But that's another story as they say ;)

To be honest, I doubt any retailer would be willing/able to tell you what version of firmware is on any particular components. You can always ask though.

Good luck.
 
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mikeo said:
It's really not as difficult as it seems. Pretty much all SSD manufacturers will recommend you flash your SSD as a secondary drive. Depends a lot of what's in the firmware update and how good their flashing tool is etc. Obviously you'll appreciate updating the firmware in any device carries risks, hence why it's sensible to only do it if actually required (which in this case it is) and to do it the safest way possible. Wish I had a fiver for everytime someone glibly (for no real reason) updates their motherboard BIOS and ends up bricking it. But that's another story as they say ;)

To be honest, I doubt any retailer would be willing/able to tell you what version of firmware is on any particular components. You can always ask though.

Good luck.
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LOL,
made me a wee bit worried now, lol.

I can plug it in at the back of the pc (motherboard), is that what you mean by saying its easier to plug it in as a secondary drive ?

If so then thats not a problem, look at my board and you will see what I mean >>> http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8Z77V_DELUXE/#specifications

Dunno if that means I can plug it in at the back does it ? I see something saying Back I/O Ports 2 x eSATA 6Gb/s sockets.

Does that mean I could plug it in there and do it the simple way like you say, I dont know the difference with eSATA and SATA as its something I have never thought about and never used, I even have and eSATA port on the front of the HAF932 case too.

Please let me know if you can, or anyone else in the know if mikeO isnt available.

thanks. ;)
 
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Hi

When I talk about a "secondary drive", I mean any storage drive connected to your PC other than the primary drive that has your OS installed on it.

Assuming you have your primary (IE. boot drive) connected to the first SATA connection on your motherboard, then just connect your new SSD to one of the other SATA connectors on your motherboard. Makes sense as it's a SATA 3 device to connect it to the other 6Gb/s port on the motherboard.

Sorry for the confusion.

PS. eSATA, is just in reality an external SATA connection but the controller will be non Intel (looks to be an ASMedia Esata controller on your mobo). I would not try and flash (or even connect) your SSD to either the eSATA (especially to try and flash it!) and definitely not to either of the Marvell controlled SATA ports (navy blue ports on your mobo) as the performance will be sub-standard compared to connecting via either of the two Intel 6Gb/s ports (gray on your mobo).

PPS. I think we've ended up in a major high-jack of this thread between us! Might have been an idea to start a new one, hindsight a wonderful thing ;)
 
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mikeo said:
Hi

When I talk about a "secondary drive", I mean any storage drive connected to your PC other than the primary drive that has your OS installed on it.

Assuming you have your primary (IE. boot drive) connected to the first SATA connection on your motherboard, then just connect your new SSD to one of the other SATA connectors on your motherboard. Makes sense as it's a SATA 3 device to connect it to the other 6Gb/s port on the motherboard.

Sorry for the confusion.

PS. eSATA, is just in reality an external SATA connection but the controller will be non Intel (looks to be an ASMedia Esata controller on your mobo). I would not try and flash (or even connect) your SSD to either the eSATA (especially to try and flash it!) and definitely not to either of the Marvell controlled SATA ports (navy blue ports on your mobo) as the performance will be sub-standard compared to connecting via either of the two Intel 6Gb/s ports (gray on your mobo).

PPS. I think we've ended up in a major high-jack of this thread between us! Might have been an idea to start a new one, hindsight a wonderful thing ;)
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LOL, nah I think the original 1st poster got his answer and as I was asking the exact same question thats why I carrried it on, so I think its ok that way ;)

So your saying that I simply leave everything as it is now with windows on the old sata mechanical drive and just plug in the new SSD to a spare SSD 6GB port on the motherboard and then I should be able to run the OCZ Toolbox from the old sata drive that has windows on it and update the firmware on the SSD ???

Is that what your meaning mate ? cheers ;)

p.s
and then afterwards switch them all about and install windows on the SSD etc of course ?

when installing windows to the SSD do I make it primary drive or logical or what, I dont have a clue as ive never had an SSD ?
 
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Yep... that's it :D:D:D

As long as you have AHCI set (rather than IDE) in the BIOS. If not, then GOOGLE changing IDE>AHCI, as it's not just as simple as changing the value in the BIOS (you will get a BSOD on boot if you do), there is a very small registry edit you need to do as well.

AHCI mode needed to use OCZ TOOLBOX.

When you are satisfied that the firmware is correct and up to version 1.5 then yes, shutdown PC, remove old HD and replace with SSD.

While it's connected as a secondary drive and after updating the firmware. You might want to run a couple of speed tests (everyone seems to). This is maybe the time to do it (ATTO, AS SSD, or CDM). If you do... then I would recommend after you've finished your speed tests, to Secure Erase the SSD via the OCZ Toolbox (returns the drive to factory fresh state). Don't worry if your speed test are +- 10% compared to other ones you find on the Internet, it's not an exact science and so many things can effect it! As an example, the 3K write test in AS SSD is a bit of a con (flame suit on) and you won't see the best figures unless running the High Performance power plan in Windows (IE. Intel speedstep effectively disabled). But I digress and risk wandering into a side avenue here!

Then install Windows as normal (only SSD connected of course!). You don't need to do anything to the SSD. It should make no difference what so ever that you are installing to an SSD. No need to format it beforehand, in fact better not to. On a side note, never ever full format an SSD (GOOGLE Write Amplification if you want to know why). If you ever want to re-format, just do a quick format.

Good luck.
 
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mikeo said:
Yep... that's it :D:D:D

As long as you have AHCI set (rather than IDE) in the BIOS. If not, then GOOGLE changing IDE>AHCI, as it's not just as simple as changing the value in the BIOS (you will get a BSOD on boot if you do), there is a very small registry edit you need to do as well.

AHCI mode needed to use OCZ TOOLBOX.

When you are satisfied that the firmware is correct and up to version 1.5 then yes, shutdown PC, remove old HD and replace with SSD.

While it's connected as a secondary drive and after updating the firmware. You might want to run a couple of speed tests (everyone seems to). This is maybe the time to do it (ATTO, AS SSD, or CDM). If you do... then I would recommend after you've finished your speed tests, to Secure Erase the SSD via the OCZ Toolbox (returns the drive to factory fresh state). Don't worry if your speed test are +- 10% compared to other ones you find on the Internet, it's not an exact science and so many things can effect it! As an example, the 3K write test in AS SSD is a bit of a con (flame suit on) and you won't see the best figures unless running the High Performance power plan in Windows (IE. Intel speedstep effectively disabled). But I digress and risk wandering into a side avenue here!

Then install Windows as normal (only SSD connected of course!). You don't need to do anything to the SSD. It should make no difference what so ever that you are installing to an SSD. No need to format it beforehand, in fact better not to. On a side note, never ever full format an SSD (GOOGLE Write Amplification is you want to know why). If you ever want to re-format, just do a quick format.

Good luck.
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Thanks again mate;)

so is this the fix right here, looks pretty simple especially if you use the "microsoft fix it" app, >>>

Here

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...-my-hard/09a0eac7-a775-416f-b30b-219fcaab2ac9

and here

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/922976

I have just ran the microsoft fix it from that link anyway and it says its complete, I dont know if that means thats it all sorted and ready to take the SSD now though, lol

so if you say that is it ready then does that mean you need to do that every time you install windows ??? thats a real pain in the neck if you do man :(
 
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You only need to run that registry tweak if your current system is running in IDE mode and you want to swap to AHCI.

When installing Windows from scratch... as long as it's set to AHCI in the BIOS prior to the install, then you will not have to do anything further.
 
mikeo said:
You only need to run that registry tweak if your current system is running in IDE mode and you want to swap to AHCI.

When installing Windows from scratch... as long as it's set to AHCI in the BIOS prior to the install, then you will not have to do anything further.
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;)
theres not even any IDE slots (for very old style hard drives and dvd drives) on this board mate, so should that mean its sorted then without doing anything ?

what ya reckon ?;)

anyways, if you have any doubts, whereabout in the bios would I find that AHCI setting mate ?
 
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scotslad said:
;)
theres not even any IDE slots (for very old style hard drives and dvd drives) on this board mate, so should that mean its sorted then without doing anything ?

what ya reckon ?;)

anyways, if you have any doubts, whereabout in the bios would I find that AHCI setting mate ?
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Hi... this is nothing to actually do with IDE drives as such (IE. old fashioned drives that run off the IDE bus). It's the SATA control setting that tells your system to either use the AHCI or to run in IDE compatibility mode. Sometimes refereed to as "Parallel ATA emulation" ... This allows the SATA controller to run in legacy operating systems which are not SATA-aware . Though quite why anyone would be be using anything other than the latest version of Windows (or at least Vista) is beyond me. To be totally honest, I would have thought that any modern motherboard should be set in this mode anyway. But best to check.

See good old Wikipedia for a description:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Host_Controller_Interface

Re BIOS setting.
Here you go:
http://www.anandtech.com/Gallery/Album/1956#15

Not being disrespectful, but I'm starting to get the idea that this might be the first PC that you've built!?
 
mikeo said:
Hi... this is nothing to actually do with IDE drives as such (IE. old fashioned drives that run off the IDE bus). It's the SATA control setting that tells your system to either use the AHCI or to run in IDE compatibility mode. Sometimes refereed to as "Parallel ATA emulation" ... This allows the SATA controller to run in legacy operating systems which are not SATA-aware . Though quite why anyone would be be using anything other than the latest version of Windows (or at least Vista) is beyond me. To be totally honest, I would have thought that any modern motherboard should be set in this mode anyway. But best to check.

See good old Wikipedia for a description:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Host_Controller_Interface

Re BIOS setting.
Here you go:
http://www.anandtech.com/Gallery/Album/1956#15

Not being disrespectful, but I'm starting to get the idea that this might be the first PC that you've built!?
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No mate, defo not the first pc ive built, ive been into pc's since back in windows 95 days and building a few maybe over the past 12 years or so and always helping friends etc.

Only thing is, as I get older, I start to forget things easier and my last build was about 3.5years ago, so yes this is my first new build since then and I can assure you, the stuff on the motherboards etc has changed quite a bit in my opinion, lol.

Away back years ago I didnt overclock either, but since the last build 3.5years ago thats when I got into overclocking with my i7 920 etc, and same thing again now with my new setup.

It just takes time mate to start remembering things again, especially different bioses and things like that and all the other stuff that parts do on the motherboard as I have forgot a lot of it, brain is like a teabag, honestly, lol, but we live and we learn again.

Hope you understand what I mean and thanks for the last reply that I will go over tonight, I just like to be 100% correct with things as I dont want anything to get messed up as we all know that can sometimes happen.

ohh, dont know if I mentioned, but its windows 7 x64 I have, just thought I would say. cheers mate.;)
 
No problems.

I'm a grey beard myself (both metaphorically and literally!). So can appreciate how things have changed over the years. Any time soon I'll be switching into old codger mode and reminiscing about the good old days of punched cards and paper tape readers :):):)
 
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