Poll: Syrian Chemical Weapon Attack

[Craterloads]

They have also been quite reticent to get involved in Syria. Do you really think this is over oil?

Or haven't been able to sell / manufacturer a reason to a war weary nation. It seems the plan was to get Assad out at any cost, whether that comes at the detriment of the Syrian people, rather than one of negotiated peace. Now that's failed/failing...

 

[elmarko]

Odd how every single nation around Iran has slowly come under invasion by the US/UK & another may soon be added to the list.

Oil isn't the only factor, it's the strategic value of the location & importance of it being the closest ally to Iran.

We seem to be drawing up military plans without any real evidence it was the Syrian military & not the rebels who did the chemical attack.

When in doubt it's safer to assume the person with the most to gain was the one who committed the act, in this case the rebels.

 

[Devlish]

Or haven't been able to sell / manufacturer a reason to a war weary nation. It seems the plan was to get Assad out at any cost, whether that comes at the detriment of the Syrian people, rather than one of negotiated peace. Now that's failed/failing...

At any cost? they havent done much at all to date and befitted from it strategically. Whether theyll do anything now when its not in their self interest to do so will show the true america.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Odd how every single nation around Iran has slowly come under invasion by the US/UK

Where did you learn to read a map!?

7 Countries border Iran.

Only 2 of them have been 'invaded' by the USA. The USA has since withdrawn from 1 of them and is withdrawing from the other so if it was about Iran they kinda forgot the main part of that 'plan'.

 

[Craterloads]

At any cost? they havent done much at all to date and befitted from it strategically. Whether theyll do anything now when its not in their self interest to do so will show the true america.

They haven't? they have done pretty much everything they could politically get away with including providing millions in Aid and weapons directly and indirectly via back channels through Turkey and other surrounding nations. Along with a media campaign, sanctions, training and tried to push through numerous UN resolutions (now going around the UN).

 

[The Running Man]

Syria doesn't have huge amounts of oil but presumably it will be seen to have enough for market speculators to cause a surge in the price of crude, costing us all more money as a result

It's not about how much you have, it's about how well you can control the supply of those reserves. And how the companies listed in your country can profit from that control.

 

[Craterloads]

It's not about how much you have, it's about how well you can control the supply of those reserves. And how the companies listed in your country can profit from that control.

Not sure it's about oil to be honest, I don't think the "victors" would be handing over any contracts anytime soon.

more like get rid of the threat to Israel if and when an attack on Iran takes place. Iran would struggle to directly reach and attack Israel, most effectively targeting Israel via Hezbollah and Syria.

 

[Devlish]

They haven't? they have done pretty much everything they could politically get away with including providing millions in Aid and weapons directly and indirectly via back channels through Turkey and other surrounding nations. Along with a media campaign, sanctions and tried to push through numerous UN resolutions.

Which equals squat. Really, trying to push through resolutions you know are going to be blocked is the same as doing nothing. Millions in weapons? Well theyve never shown up on the ground, not that a couple of million in weaponry would make a difference.

Even if they had been secretly supplying cast off AK47s, on the scale of things they *could* be doing it rates somewhere above giving the FSA comms and NV equipment and is about as useful. The FSA have all the rifles and mortars they need, they need something to knock out planes and tanks in plentiful supply, other than the last century kornets and SAMs they get from overrun depots. And if that started showing up then you might be able to argue the US was doing 'something', but not currently.

 

[Devlish]

Not sure it's about oil to be honest, I don't think the "victors" would be handing over any contracts anytime soon.

more like get rid of the threat to Israel if and when an attack on Iran takes place. Iran would struggle to directly reach and attack Israel, most effectively targeting Israel via Hezbollah and Syria.

yeah everyones obsessed with oil, because that was what Iraq was about and theyre desperate to link the two, as though boots on the ground was ever going to be a factor.

Youre probably closer to the real reasoning I would have thought, with Assads Syria gone, Hezbollah is totally screwed and will collapse pretty quickly I would guess. Which means Iran is totally out in the cold, unable to project any kind of threat against Israel whilst Lebanon turns a bit more Israel friendly. Plus Russia gets booted out of the region. Bonus.

 

[Craterloads]

Which equals squat. Really, trying to push through resolutions you know are going to be blocked is the same as doing nothing. Millions in weapons? Well theyve never shown up on the ground, not that a couple of million in weaponry would make a difference.

Even if they had been secretly supplying cast off AK47s, on the scale of things they *could* be doing it rates somewhere above giving the FSA comms and NV equipment and is about as useful. The FSA have all the rifles and mortars they need, they need something to knock out planes and tanks in plentiful supply, other than the last century kornets and SAMs they get from overrun depots. And if that started showing up then you might be able to argue the US was doing 'something', but not currently.

More than "not done much at all to date", like I said everything they could politically get away with given current affairs nationally and internationally. Reasons why no advanced weaponry have been supplied is simply due to the fact they could be turned around and used against the Israelis. It's pretty certain a large portion of the rebels would be more than happy to turn any plane knocking out of the skies type weapons on Israel and given they are stones throw away, I would imagine it is not an option.

 

[Devlish]

More than "not done much at all to date", like I said everything they could politically get away with given current affairs nationally and internationally. Reasons why no advanced weaponry have been supplied is simply due to the fact they could be turned around and used against the Israelis. It's pretty certain a large portion of the rebels would be more than happy to turn any plane knocking out of the skies type weapons on Israel and given they are stones throw away, I would imagine it is not an option.

I wouldnt say a large portion, but certainly a percentage, in the single figures. Irony is of course that the islamists were viewed negatively in the FSA until it became clear the west was not going to do anything the islamists proved effective. I would say that the majority of the people though just want Assad gone and peace to start rebuilding.

They do have some old soviet SAMs in any case, probably not as effective against military targets but deadly against civilian. Theyve been firing them at the SAF to varying degrees of success and seem to mostly come from overrun depots *probably*. the point is, the threat is there.

I would argue its better to promote the success of the secular FSA and sideline the islamists to ensure that they dont have any pull in the new givernment, especially in a country with stocks of chemical wesapons. The only real effective way to do this is to start a Kosovo style bombing campaign, to debilitate Assads aircraft, artillery and armor and let the numbers do the talking, numbers that would spell doom for Assad on an even playing ground.

 

[gettothechopper]

lol at people worrying about RAF planes going to Cyprus

you do know that its the main route for the Afghan air bridge and that the herrick rip is just starting?

how long till we start getting the old internet rumours about massive US fleets setting sail again

 

[do_ron_ron]

If there were a similar situation in Europe, would we want the Arab states to sort it out for us ? I think not.

The West should not get involved in Middle Eastern problems, because:

a) It's none of our business

and

b) It will only increase the likelihood of a terrorist attack on UK soil.

Keep out of it.

 

[do_ron_ron]

lol at people worrying about RAF planes going to Cyprus

you do know that its the main route for the Afghan air bridge and that the herrick rip is just starting?

The news report did say that locals said the amount of traffic was above normal.

how long till we start getting the old internet rumours about massive US fleets setting sail again

Would that be the fleet that was on the BBC news.

 

[gettothechopper]

The news report did say that locals said the amount of traffic was above normal.

the same rise you will see every 6 months (going to 9 months now) thats strangly in line with the Herrick rotation swapover?

not to mention the amount of kit coming back due to the draw down

Would that be the fleet that was on the BBC news.

the fleet that was already in the med anyway? no

im talking about the "massive US fleet that is going to invade iran in the next 10 seconds" rumour that used to go round and round on this forum

 

[Craterloads]

Don't know, seems like a decent portion well the most effective ones anyway. you've got the large Al Nusra Front which is a major player along with many other factions, so I think single figures is looking at it a bit kindly.

Seems Assad does have significant support though, not as it is portrayed in our media.

Best solution for the people is Syria would be a negotiated truce, at present we just have people on either side looking for a victor. Kind of nauseating hearing politicians usethe plight of ordinary Syrians as a properganda tool when truthfully they couldn't care less aslong as they get their side victory. If they wanted peace a negotiated truce is the only way, not arming either side.

 

[Devlish]

If there were a similar situation in Europe, would we want the Arab states to sort it out for us ? I think not.

The West should not get involved in Middle Eastern problems, because:

a) It's none of our business

and

b) It will only increase the likelihood of a terrorist attack on UK soil.

Keep out of it.

No offense but thats Daily Mail idiotic. I dont know where to start, geopolitical reasons, domestic, humanitarian? How do you reckon it will 'increase the likelihood of an attack?' So if the islamists get their hands on chemical weapons theyll be satisfied with that? What exactly do you propose, we close our borders to the outside world?

 

[thep02]

The US is soon going to be the largest producer of gas and oil in the world thanks to their Shale revolution. They have also been quite reticent to get involved in Syria. Do you really think this is over oil?

Over the price of oil and the resulting value of the $$$, petro dollars are like magic money to the USA hence the Carter doctrine and fracking only being viable with ultra high prices, plus the desire of the UK to do things Russia won't like thus the need for South Stream gas for Europe so we aren't reliant on Russia and the new east Med oil and gas fields which Syria will have a share of, it's ultimately also about Israeli hegemony in the ME.

 

[[TW]Fox]

High oil prices seriously damage the U.S. economy and high gas prices seriously threaten elections so it's madness to suggest the USA would want to increase the oil price.

 

[Devlish]

Don't know, seems like a decent portion well the most effective ones anyway. you've got the large Al Nusra Front which is a major player along with many other factions, so I think single figures is looking at it a bit kindly.

Seems Assad does have significant support though, not as it is portrayed in our media.

Best solution for the people is Syria would be a negotiated truce, at present we just have people on either side looking for a victor. Kind of nauseating hearing politicians usethe plight of ordinary Syrians as a properganda tool when truthfully they couldn't care less aslong as they get their side victory. If they wanted peace a negotiated truce is the only way, not arming either side.

Negotiations would need to have Russia come onboard and theyre not interested. Assad does have substantial support from that portion of the country that is Alawite, somewhere around the teens. Of course the majority of the country is Sunni which is yet another factor.