Good info ubers.
Shame to hear the F15 is down the pecking order now as it was arguably the best air superiority fighter going for a lot of years. Time marches on but they still look great.
F 4 Phantom mate, that looked cool.
Poll: Syrian Chemical Weapon Attack
- Thread starter Craig1981
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F 4 Phantom mate, that looked cool.
Oh I have no doubt before the war started most people chose peace. Who wouldnt? The problem was the Arab Spring and people believing in change. Peaceful demonstrations first then a wholesale crackdown which in turn led to a mass uprising.
that worldtribune one sounds weak at best, id like to see the sources but can pretty much guess.
In all honesty I bet the majority of the people in Syria would support anyone who could bring back peace and start rebuilding, but thats not going to happen now without a knockout blow.
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Dont attack on syria cos it will be so chaos and very messy plus too costly to rebuild again... i dont think syria govt using chemical attack on people as i think it more likely to be from rebel groups like split into numbers of groups...
The UN have already suggested the rebels (or jihadists) have used chemical weapons in Syria in the past (one or more of the small scale attacks the specialists were there to see).
The area was a warzone, you can't just go "stop!" And everyone stop fighting, especially if you're pushing the group you're fighting back. Why give the enemy the chance to regroup... It makes perfect military sense.
some guy in was it sweden got arrested for starting to build a nuclear reactor in his kitchen (he got all the materials needed)
http://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-nuclear-reactor-angelholm-2011-8
but people dpon't believe the rebels can get or make chemical gas
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Well at least hes encapsulated the popular opinions espoused by the Daily Mail, Express and Nigel Farrange, all of whom said pretty much the same thing. Milliband is that you???
Good info ubers.
Shame to hear the F15 is down the pecking order now as it was arguably the best air superiority fighter going for a lot of years. Time marches on but they still look great.
I wouldn't write the F-15 off just yet, especially not the new Silent Eagle conversion/upgrade that's pretty much done.
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/asd_08_28_2013_p01-01-610593.xml
F15E + stealth materials + internal weapon stowage + bang up to date electronics = 2nd only to an F22 I'd suspect.
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I don't deny the intel tbh. I just want someone to spell out why chemical weapons are worse than watching people get shot in the face or balls or even blown up.
tony blair? is that you
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Slowly "as in since the Iraq wars started" but surely becoming an East v West scenario ?
people are starting to nudge us and if this carry s on over years to come we will be to weak and stretched to retaliate in a decisive way ..
Should just leave other countries too it !
people are starting to nudge us and if this carry s on over years to come we will be to weak and stretched to retaliate in a decisive way ..
Should just leave other countries too it !
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The UN have already suggested the rebels (or jihadists) have used chemical weapons in Syria in the past (one or more of the small scale attacks the specialists were there to see).
The area was a warzone, you can't just go "stop!" And everyone stop fighting, especially if you're pushing the group you're fighting back. Why give the enemy the chance to regroup... It makes perfect military sense.
The UN did not conclude that at all. One member of the team said that and was rebuked by the other members of the team. The JIC however have concluded that the regime have used chemical weapons at least 12 times since 2012.
There is no tangible evidence of rebels using chemical weapons.
Because in theory a missile or bullet is strategically targeting an enemy, whereas a gas attack is a kind of kill everything sweep through an area.
US/UK want to jump the gun to get first dibs on controlling the region
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So, the red line is 350 in one go rather than a slow 100000, how thoughtful.
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The red line is the use of weapons forbidden by the Geneva Convention.
But as pointed out, there can be no excuse for using chemical weapons in a civilian populated area, as you cannot possibly expect to avoid civilian loss of life, unless you can control the weather that is. This is different to conventional weapons where (in theory) they are targeted.
It also curious you chose the lower estimate, rather than the average or upper estimate.
It's sad to see how spineless our nation has become.
Why should we be the world police? Why aren't their immediate neighbours doing something about it?
It seems we only "help" when there's something to be gained anyhow so it's certainly not out of the goodness of our hearts. Not to mention the fact that intervening never really seems to help world stability in the long run anyway, especially when we're meddling with that part of the globe.
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Yes, "in theory". This is not theory 'tho, 100000 people have demonstrated that. The Geneva Convention - what a lot of ****. Its like choosing to get beefed by a 42 inch ***** or a 50 inch *****. Either way one is going to have a very wide rectum.
What is the upper estimate?
Good info ubers.
Shame to hear the F15 is down the pecking order now as it was arguably the best air superiority fighter going for a lot of years. Time marches on but they still look great.
(I wanna stress I love the F15, its totally badass and way cooler looking than the F22).
It's not really down the pecking order that much that, its just its always been overrated
Allow me to elaborate, the F15 and cheaper more versatile F16 have always been comparable to the Su-27 and MiG-29, which were very formidable planes when new (the Su-27 even outclassing the F15 on paper due to its much better radar and targeting system). However pretty much every battle that has ever taken place in the last 40 years between US and Russia aircraft has always been between well maintained and usually up to date US planes against poorly maintained and usually outdated Russian planes. Due to this all of the US planes from that era (F4, F14, F15, F16, F18) look much better on paper than they should. Add to that the financial collapse of the USSR and the Russian planes went a long time without the required modernization even being available.
Today however Russia has recovered (somewhat) and the Su-27 (current variant Su-35BM) and MiG-29 (current variant MiG-35 something) are once again real threats to the F15, F16 and even the F22 because at the end of the day planes don't kill planes missiles do, and if you could fit AMRAAM's to Spitfires you could have pretty much used them to clear the skies in the first gulf war.
I don't for one minute think that Syria could put up a real fight against NATO or UN forces, but it would be a much more significant threat than Iraq/Libya/N Korea. A lot of their MiG-29's and other planes are updated and reportedly maintained, those planes can carry newer missiles on par with current NATO weapons.
The NGOs probably being organisations like the Red Cross/red crescent I assume. However it was good enough for the UN to decide the majority were in favour of Assad. That compares reasonably favourably with what journalists have seen, where most people are more worried about the jihadists than the government.
Either way you can't just state that the religious divide is the sole factor in deciding who supports who. Much like most wars (such as Iraq) and many other countries, for the vast majority of the population who is in power means nothing at all, they carry on their normal lives without issue. Then war comes and their lives are turned upside down and business/family/friends are lost...