Poll: Syrian Chemical Weapon Attack

[n111ck]

Well the SNP are accusing the British Govt of supplying the Nerve Agent used in the alleged attack.

No, they are saying that the UK sold chemicals that 'could' be used to make Sarin gas and that they stopped selling them when EU sanctions were imposed.

The SNP are nobodies but at least they seem to agree that Assad was responsible.

 

[Fuzz]

Awkward!!

http://twitter.com/IDS_MP/status/374094182253875201/photo/1

 

[Biohazard]

No, they are saying that the UK sold chemicals that 'could' be used to make Sarin gas and that they stopped selling them when EU sanctions were imposed.

The SNP are nobodies but at least they seem to agree that Assad was responsible.

The SNP are the only political party in the UK able to obtain and maintain a seat majority in their parliament, are more popular now than 2011, and are on the cusp of removing Scotland from the London-UK war machine.

End London Rule.

 

[Biohazard]

Revealed: Britain sold nerve gas chemicals to Syria 10 months after war began

FURIOUS politicians have demanded Prime Minister David Cameron explain why chemical export licences were granted to firms last January – 10 months after the Syrian uprising began.

BRITAIN allowed firms to sell chemicals to Syria capable of being used to make nerve gas, we can reveal today.

Export licences for potassium fluoride and sodium fluoride were granted months after the bloody civil war in the Middle East began.

The chemical is capable of being used to make weapons such as sarin, thought to be the nerve gas used in the attack on a rebel-held Damascus suburb which killed nearly 1500 people, including 426 children, 10 days ago.

President Bashar Assad’s forces have been blamed for the attack, leading to calls for an armed response from the West.

British MPs voted against joining America in a strike. But last night, President Barack Obama said he will seek the approval of Congress to take military action.

The chemical export licences were granted by Business Secretary Vince Cable’s Department for
Business, Innovation and Skills last January – 10 months after the Syrian uprising began.

They were only revoked six months later, when the European Union imposed tough sanctions on Assad’s regime.

Yesterday, politicians and anti-arms trade campaigners urged Prime Minister David Cameron to explain why the licences were granted.

Dunfermline and West Fife Labour MP Thomas Docherty, who sits on the House of Commons’ Committees on Arms Export Controls, plans to lodge Parliamentary questions tomorrow and write to Cable.

He said: “At best it has been negligent and at worst reckless to export material that could have been used to create chemical weapons.

“MPs will be horrified and furious that the UK Government has been allowing the sale of these
ingredients to Syria.

“What the hell were they doing granting a licence in the first place?

“I would like to know what investigations have been carried out to establish if any of this
material exported to Syria was subsequently used in the attacks on its own people.”

The SNP’s leader at Westminster, Angus Robertson MP, said: “I will be raising this in Parliament as soon as possible to find out what examination the UK Government made of where these chemicals were going and what they were to be used for.

“Approving the sale of chemicals which can be converted into lethal weapons during a civil war is a very serious issue.

“We need to know who these chemicals were sold to, why they were sold, and whether the UK Government were aware that the chemicals could potentially be used for chemical weapons.

“The ongoing humanitarian crisis in Syria makes a full explanation around these shady deals even more important.”

Mark Bitel of the Campaign Against Arms Trade (Scotland) said: “The UK Government claims to have an ethical policy on arms exports, but when it comes down to practice the reality is very different.

“The Government is hypocritical to talk about chemical weapons if it’s granting licences to companies to export to regimes such as Syria.

“We saw David Cameron, in the wake of the Arab Spring, rushing off to the Middle East with arms companies to promote business.”

Some details emerged in July of the UK’s sale of the chemicals to Syria but the crucial dates of the exports were withheld.

The Government have refused to identify the licence holders or say whether the licences were issued to one or two companies.

The chemicals are in powder form and highly toxic. The licences specified that they should be used for making aluminium structures such as window frames.

Professor Alastair Hay, an expert in environmental toxicology at Leeds University, said: “They have a variety of industrial uses.

“But when you’re making a nerve agent, you attach a fluoride element and that’s what gives it
its toxic properties.

“Fluoride is key to making these munitions.

“Whether these elements were used by Syria to make nerve agents is something only subsequent investigation will reveal.”

The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills said: “The UK Government operates one of the most rigorous arms export control regimes in the world.

“An export licence would not be granted where we assess there is a clear risk the goods might be used for internal repression, provoke or prolong conflict within a country, be used aggressively against another country or risk our national security.

“When circumstances change or new information comes to light, we can – and do – revoke licences where the proposed export is no longer consistent with the criteria.”

Assad’s regime have denied blame for the nerve gas attack, saying the accusations are “full of lies”. They have pointed the finger at rebels.

UN weapons inspectors investigating the atrocity left Damascus just before dawn yesterday and crossed into Lebanon after gathering evidence for four days.

They are now travelling to the Dutch HQ of the Organisation for the Prevention of Chemical Weapons.

It could take up to two weeks for the results of tests on samples taken from victims of the attack, as well as from water, soil and shrapnel, to be revealed.

On Thursday night, Cameron referred to a Joint Intelligence Committee report on Assad’s use of chemical weapons as he tried in vain to persuade MPs to back military action. The report said the regime had used chemical weapons at least 14 times since last year.

Russian president Vladimir Putin yesterday attacked America’s stance and urged Obama to show evidence to the UN that Assad’s regime was guilty.

Russia and Iran are Syria’s staunchest allies. The Russians have given arms and military backing to Assad during the civil war which has claimed more than 100,000 lives.

Putin said it would be “utter nonsense” for Syria to provoke opponents and spark military
retaliation from the West by using chemical weapons.

But the White House, backed by the French government, remain convinced of Assad’s guilt, and Obama proposes “limited, narrow” military action to punish the regime.

He has the power to order a strike, but last night said he would seek approval from Congress.

Obama called the chemical attack “an assault on human dignity” and said: “We are prepared to strike whenever we choose.”

He added: “Our capacity to execute this mission is not time-sensitive. It will be effective tomorrow, or next week, or one month from now.

“And I’m prepared to give that order.”

Some fear an attack on Syria will spark retaliation against US allies in the region, such
as Jordan, Turkey and Israel.

General Lord Dannatt, the former head of the British Army, described the Commons vote as a “victory for common sense and democracy”.

He added that the “drumbeat for war” had dwindled among the British public in recent days.

But then Britain will sell arms to anyone it would seem.

 

[n111ck]

Hold on - I thought Assad would never use such weapons so what does it matter if we sell him components that could make Sarin?

Again you cant have it both ways.

It does seem though that the tide is turning against Assad.

As for the SNP -

 

[Strife212]

Awkward!!

http://twitter.com/IDS_MP/status/374094182253875201/photo/1

When are the cruise missiles going to start raining down onto London?

The whole thing is a complete farce.

 

[Castiel]

No, they are saying that the UK sold chemicals that 'could' be used to make Sarin gas and that they stopped selling them when EU sanctions were imposed.

The SNP are nobodies but at least they seem to agree that Assad was responsible.

As I said, the SNP are accusing the British Government of selling the Nerve Agents to Syria.......after the War began.

So, its not No, despite you trying to reword it to make it seem like something else was said....if you disagree with that, take it up with the BBC and Tim Reid.

@TimReidBBC: SNP to "seek answers from the UK Govt at earliest opportunity" over claims UK allowed sale of nerve gas agents to #Syria after war began

The fact is no-one knows who is responsible as yet, both sides are being accused on the ground of using nerve gas (made from nerve agents) on the civilian population. Attacking one side is daft, if you take military action then it needs to stop the conflict, not to weaken one side so that another can gain supremacy as that is simply Regime Change.

 

[Biohazard]

Hold on - I thought Assad would never use such weapons so what does it matter if we sell him components that could make Sarin?

Well, I haven't said that, I think it might be a bit dim witted given the circumstances, but the fact remains that the Government was sanctioning nerve agent components for sale in countries torn by civil war. It does smack of negligence at best or down right contempt at worst.

Again you cant have it both ways.

I take it you are a supporter of the Tories/war against assad?

Aren't you then having it 'both ways'?

It does seem though that the tide is turning against Assad.

As for the SNP -

The SNP is an outstanding electoral success story, what are the Tories these days?

 

[n111ck]

So now Assad had the chemicals, had the distribution method and occupied the area they were fired from.... hmmmmmm.....

It MUST be the rebels.

 

[Biohazard]

So now Assad had the chemicals, had the distribution method and occupied the area they were fired from.... hmmmmmm.....

It MUST be the rebels.

Why wait until they have the upper hand, and UN weapons inspectors show up that day?

 

[n111ck]

The SNP is an outstanding electoral success story, what are the Tories these days?

Oh come off it - drumming up anti English sentiment and misplaced national pride to push some agenda that will ultimately bankrupt what is really a trivial piece of land attached to England. There's a reason they need to include poorly educated teenagers in their 'vote'.

Regardless you cant push an Assad wouldn't do it agenda whilst at the same time attacking the govt for allegedly providing the smoking gun which is what people seem to be doing. This is turning into a shameful game of politics...

 

[Biohazard]

Oh come off it - drumming up anti English sentiment and misplaced national pride to push some agenda that will ultimately bankrupt what is really a trivial piece of land attached to England. There's a reason they need to include poorly educated teenagers in their 'vote'.

I don't think you understand what self determination really is.

Regardless you cant push an Assad wouldn't do it agenda whilst at the same time attacking the govt for allegedly providing the smoking gun which is what people seem to be doing. This is turning into a shameful game of politics...

Oh the irony.

I think whatever turns out to be the case over the instigator of the chemical attack that this sale sanctioned by the British government is absolutely reprehensible in either event.

 

[shephga]

But then Britain will sell arms to anyone it would seem.

You can make poison gas using stuff you've probably got under your kitchen sink or in your bathroom.

Uses for potassium fluoride from a quick search include
tin plating
soldering fluxes
making plastics
pesticides
insecticides
disinfectants

Sodium Fluoride usages includes
Teeth cleaning products
Fluoride in water
Cleaning agents
Metal extraction

Who know's why they wanted it, why they were sold it and what they've really used it for, I don't know, I expect you don't know and would be very surprised if the SNP, Daily record or anyone outside of the folks in Syria who ordered the stuff knows.

All I know I can't trust our government, the crap in the papers, the crap on tv and most of the crap on forums like this discussing stuff like the troubles in Syria. What I do know is your post, the article in the daily record and the way it's being used by the SNP made me laugh and sad at the same time.

For what it's worth personally if Scotland want to go their own way good luck to them.

 

[Biohazard]

You can make poison gas using stuff you've probably got under your kitchen sink or in your bathroom.

Uses for potassium fluoride from a quick search include
tin plating
soldering fluxes
making plastics
pesticides
insecticides
disinfectants

Sodium Fluoride usages includes
Teeth cleaning products
Fluoride in water
Cleaning agents
Metal extraction

Who know's why they wanted it, why they were sold it and what they've really used it for, I don't know, I expect you don't know and would be very surprised if the SNP, Daily record or anyone outside of the folks in Syria who ordered the stuff knows.

All I know I can't trust our government, the crap in the papers, the crap on tv and most of the crap on forums like this discussing stuff like the troubles in Syria.

Toothpaste on a military export license?

Hahaha.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

The SNP are the only political party in the UK able to obtain and maintain a seat majority in their parliament, are more popular now than 2011, and are on the cusp of removing Scotland from the London-UK war machine.

End London Rule.

Off topic but if Alex Salmond wants independence then it should be the whole nine yards. His disdain for ' London Rule ' doesn't seem to extend to rejecting London money.

 

[Biohazard]

What I do know is your post, the article in the daily record and the way it's being used by the SNP made me laugh and sad at the same time.

For what it's worth personally if Scotland want to go their own way good luck to them.

How is it being used by the SNP and Labour exactly?

What, to hold the Government to account? Isn't that the business of political opposition?

 

[shephga]

Toothpaste on a military export license?

Hahaha.

You've missed the point... I believe anything that could potentially be turned in to weapons needs to have that sort of export license. It's the same for computers and software.

 

[Biohazard]

Off topic but if Alex Salmond wants independence then it should be the whole nine yards. His disdain for ' London Rule ' doesn't seem to extend to rejecting London money.

I suggest you start a new thread if you want to talk about it singularly, but I can't fathom how it 'doesn't extend to rejecting London money'... that's exactly what Independence is about. Political and financial independence from London.

There would be no flow of money thereafter to fail to reject.

Unless you mean Stirling, then unfortunately that isn't the preserve of London.

 

[Biohazard]

You've missed the point... I believe anything that could potentially be turned in to weapons needs to have that sort of export license. It's the same for computers and software.

I haven't missed the point, if it wasn't intended for arms then it wouldn't have went under an arms export license. They aren't handed out like confetti.

The fact remains these potentially lethal chemicals were sold to the regime after the war had started.

It's not exactly flattering on the London Government is it?

 

[shephga]

I haven't missed the point, if it wasn't intended for arms then it wouldn't have went under an arms export license. They aren't handed out like confetti.

The fact remains these potentially lethal chemicals were sold to the regime after the war had started.

It's not exactly flattering on the London Government is it?

Potentially lethal , also just worth noting that neither of the chemicals are listed under the UK military list of items that require export authorisation.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/184052/strategic-export-control-militarylist20130320.pdf

A lot of the stuff "The London Government" or any Government does is ever flattering, Governments aren't there to flatter. Personally I think all of our recent governments be that labour, tory or the rubbish we have now is anygood, just a bunch of self serving idiots out of touch with how the electorate feel. I think it'd be the same with UKIP, SNP or anyone else, sadly power corrupts.