Tape storage, what's the word?

ubersonic · 4 Sep 2015 at 13:05

In the process of migrating to Windows Server Essentials with Office 365 (Office already running) and was looking at new backup software (Backup Exec 12.5 isn't supported on WSE, seems only yesterday we upgraded to 12.5 lol) and thought I would also look at whether it's worth moving from SDLT to something else like LTO at the same time.

Whats going on in the world of backups?

stuie · 4 Sep 2015 at 13:48

How much are you looking at needing backed up?

Kei · 4 Sep 2015 at 14:19

We use LTO 5 & now 6 in work to backup video footage. We used to use Backup exec 2012 with LTO 5 primarily because the SAS HBA in the server didn't support LTFS. Since migrating the tape drive to a new server, we now use LTFS only. Nice and simple process with no additional software required. I haven't had much time to play with LTFS myself but from what I did find out, there is an xml file that details the contents of the tape which can be used to log what data ended up on what tape.

ubersonic · 4 Sep 2015 at 14:23

~155GB

Armageus · 4 Sep 2015 at 14:34

ubersonic said:
~155GB

For that amount I wouldn't even be thinking about Tape (unless there is a specific requirement to archive for 20 years or Insurers specify backups must be to Tape).

256GB or even 512GB USB3.0 flash drives are affordable and offer decent backup performance, or even SSDs in USB3 or esata enclosures?

Semple · 4 Sep 2015 at 14:53

Tape has pretty much been replaced by disk based solutions. Although your backup requirements are a little small for purchasing these types of solutions. I would echo the above and purchase some large usb3 sticks.

ubersonic · 4 Sep 2015 at 15:13

Current system is a GFS rotation, or was, we only do the daily/weekly backups now as recession cost cutting ended the stockpiling of monthly backups.

Are USB3 sticks supported by backup software? Not trying to be rude but it sounds kind of like a bodge (or maybe it just sounds odd as I haven't heard of it before). Looking at the cost of USB3 Sticks they are a lot more than tapes so the whole setup would prob rival tapes+drive for cost.

Armageus · 4 Sep 2015 at 15:36

ubersonic said:
Are USB3 sticks supported by backup software? Not trying to be rude but it sounds kind of like a bodge (or maybe it just sounds odd as I haven't heard of it before).

I'll be honest, in my business environment it is a low tech solution (not quite a bodge), with robocopy and direct copies of files consolidated from several servers, but I back up 50GB daily in under an hour.

ubersonic said:
Looking at the cost of USB3 Sticks they are a lot more than tapes so the whole setup would prob rival tapes+drive for cost.

The speed and portability is the main win for me - easy and quick to restore individual files, and no requirement to have a tape drive to access the backups (e.g. if the site was destroyed by fire - I can plug USB drives into any PC)

Backup Exec 2010 R2 onwards seem to support USB Disks e.g.
https://support.symantec.com/en_US/article.HOWTO55855.html

stuie · 4 Sep 2015 at 16:20

for under 500gb usb storage has got to be the way forward

nutcase · 4 Sep 2015 at 18:44

Have you considered RDX cartridges?

ubersonic · 7 Sep 2015 at 11:09

nutcase_1uk said:
Have you considered RDX cartridges?

Thanks dude, looked into that and it seems like a great option. I had been considering LTO-3 400/800GB (as it's cheaper than SDLT 300/600GB lol).

Jim99 · 7 Sep 2015 at 11:31

If you don't want to spend too much money, external hard drives would be pretty cheap - i.e. same result as USB sticks, but cheaper. USB3 probably a good move though.

I'm not really sure why you'd want to muck around with tapes for such a small amount of data.

Toughnoodle · 7 Sep 2015 at 11:43

Jim99 said:
If you don't want to spend too much money, external hard drives would be pretty cheap - i.e. same result as USB sticks, but cheaper. USB3 probably a good move though.

I'm not really sure why you'd want to muck around with tapes for such a small amount of data.

I agree with this. The only downside I can see is if they need swapping daily, then the connectors mightn't be up to it. For a simple DR solution I tend to suggest a couple of these: Western Digital Passport They work well with the MSE/Server 2012 onwards built-in backup software. You can enable the WD security and encrypt them with it automatically unlocking the drives when they're plugged in.

Jim99 · 7 Sep 2015 at 11:47

Toughnoodle said:
I agree with this. The only downside I can see is if they need swapping daily, then the connectors mightn't be up to it. For a simple DR solution I tend to suggest a couple of these: Western Digital Passport They work well with the MSE/Server 2012 onwards built-in backup software. You can enable the WD security and encrypt them with it automatically unlocking the drives when they're plugged in.

That's true. In similar circumstances I used a NAS in a different building (but on the same internal network), which got around the frequently connecting / disconnecting problem.

Armageus · 7 Sep 2015 at 11:53

ubersonic said:
Thanks dude, looked into that and it seems like a great option. I had been considering LTO-3 400/800GB (as it's cheaper than SDLT 300/600GB lol).

Not sure why you would be considering LTO-3 given how old it is now (how long will you be able to get drives for that can read LTO-3, LTO-6 is current and shouldn't still read LTO-3, LTO-7 is arguably due any time)?

The only thing I can see going for LTO-3 is cheap media cost, but that's only good whilst you can still read it

Surely you want to be looking at LTO-6?

ubersonic · 7 Sep 2015 at 12:25

Armageus said:
Surely you want to be looking at LTO-6?

LTO-6 is a bit overkill lol, the drive will probably fail before it becomes worth it over RDX.

To put it in perspective we moved from DDS-2 to DDS-5 (DAT72) in 2004, then to SDLT 160/320 in 2010, I really don't see 2.5TB being required anytime soon.

Armageus · 7 Sep 2015 at 12:56

ubersonic said:
LTO-6 is a bit overkill lol, the drive will probably fail before it becomes worth it over RDX.

To put it in perspective we moved from DDS-2 to DDS-5 (DAT72) in 2004, then to SDLT 160/320 in 2010, I really don't see 2.5TB being required anytime soon.

It's not about the capacity though? And the cost difference for the drive is around £200.

The question is longevity - yes you can still buy an LTO-3 or LTO-4 (read/write LTO-3 media) drive now, but will that be the case when the drive fails and you need another?

Not sure why you would purposely buy obsolete, other than to save a few quid (which when relating to backups, I would rather not skimp)

If you don't need the capacity and are worried about media costs, then use LTO-5 tapes (quick look these are much cheaper ~£15 each vs ~£40, LTO-5 tapes look to be about the same price as LTO-3) with an LTO-6 drive.

ubersonic · 7 Sep 2015 at 14:45

Armageus said:
Not sure why you would purposely buy obsolete, other than to save a few quid

Yeah, that's basically it, spending extra to get something you know you will not be needing is false economy. I.E I buy an LTO-6 drive now, I have spent more than I would on an LTO-3 drive, and when it dies that money will essentially have been wasted and I then have to choose between buying another LTO-6 drive or an LTO-7 or 8.

On the other hand if I buy an LTO-3 drive now then when it dies I have not lost that money, and can buy an LTO-5 drive to replace it (again saying money over a 7/8).

It's a moot point anyway as it assumes the drive will break, and secondly because I have decided to go RDX (which seems like a much better system than tape if you are using <10 tapes anyway).

ubersonic · 9 Sep 2015 at 14:37

Managed to get a great deal on a drive and cartridge bundle, rock on

Armageus · 9 Sep 2015 at 14:42

ubersonic said:
Managed to get a great deal on a drive and cartridge bundle, rock on

Be interesting to see how you get on - after seeing them in this thread I am now considering getting a USB3.0 RDX drive and a disk to try out.

I see they also do some network versions (iSCSI I think?), any ideas how these work?