I support Arsenal but I do not follow the sheep like most people/Arsenal fans who say Vermaelen is our best defender. Anyone who has watched Arsenal and analysed their defence properly this season will know that Koscielny is better than Vermaelen.
Team of the season;
- Thread starter Tummy
- Start date
I support Arsenal but I do not follow the sheep like most people/Arsenal fans who say Vermaelen is our best defender. Anyone who has watched Arsenal and analysed their defence properly this season will know that Koscielny is better than Vermaelen.
I know that. But multiple compilations and single game footage of them will tell you otherwise. There are loads on there but it's annoying when people don't watch players individually then deem them unworthy of praise because they are not big name players. That's why I listed Ashley Williams in my subs because he has been solid for Swansea. Majority of people just list the big names -
No, they just show you what they want you to see. YouTube clips can be edited, as I've said, to make anyone look good. They're not the sort of evidence you want to use to support an agreement for picking a player.
Majority of the 'people' will just watch their own team or the 'big' games, and will base their opinions on that, nothing wrong with that. Interesting debate, but a bit boring.
Majority of the 'people' will just watch their own team or the 'big' games, and will base their opinions on that, nothing wrong with that. Interesting debate, but a bit boring.
De Gea's a flop because of his price tag? So any player that comes with a hefty price tag regardless of their age/experience is a flop if they don't hit the ground running? Not only is your logic incredibly flawed so is your opinion on De Gea on the whole. Ferdinand old and slow? Well yes he is older now and yes he has lost a yard of pace but vastly inferior to Kompany he is not. As for Welbeck you're right he is no Van Persie but then why would you compare him with RVP anyway? News flash not many strikers are as good as RVP
If you read between the lines you would know that I wasn't commenting solely on his price tag but his performances in conjunction with his price tag. He has no where near justified his price tag with his performances this season and the likes of Szczesny, Krul, Hart, Vorm and Friedel have shown him up. Before you talk about age, Szczesny is the same age and Krul is 23.
With regards to Ferdinand, he is no where near as good as Kompany in the last season. That's why Kompany was named in the team of the year last season and will be this season too. Rio isn't even anywhere near the shortlist.
I mentioned Welbeck because without the 3 I highlighted that Robert1986 mentioned it is actually quite a respectable team.
Edit them how?
That's what separates them from the people who watch other games in a season then. Thanks for clearing that one up.
... Really? Really? YouTube clips especially football clips are edited to only show the 'good' bits, or rather the positive aspects of footballers games.
As such, because they're generally fan made too, they're not sufficient evidence. It's not hard to understand.
Well yes, that's generally what ~fans do, they watch their own team. Fans tend to be biased about their own team too, it's just the rose tinted glasses.
Students of the game will want to consume as much football as possible
I understand that you're basing your opinion on De Gea's performances as well as his price tag but as I said before you're still wrong. While De Gea may well be the same age as Chesney unlike Chesney De Gea hasn't been in English football since 2006 therefore he's been brought up learning one style of play (La Liga) and at a young age has moved countries and now has to learn a different league/style of play. Any player coming into the PL needs a certain amount of time to settle (I would have thought you being an Arsenal supporter would know this better than most after Henry's slow start) especially a young player. Regardless of all that like I say your opinion on De Gea is wrong anyway he's been one of the best keepers in the league during the second part of the season.
What's Kompany got to do with Ferdinand? Koscienly wasn't in the team of the season last year either yet you've included him in your side (Nor is he as good as Kompany)? Without delving into the stats think about this, Koscienly has just returned for a suspension for picking up 10 yellow cards over the course of the season, Ferdinand on the other hand as been booked 4 times (less than half). Ferdinand has also played as many games in the centre of Man Utd's defence as anyone and we have one of the best defences in the league, Koscienly on the other hand who has played as many games as anyone in the centre of Arsenal's defence and they don't have one of the best defences in the league
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Football games are fundamental. Yes, you can edit out bad aspects of a game but not clips. When you said edit, I thought you meant edit it so they have an extra leg or something. The beauty of individual game compilations is that if you have a 3 minute long video and it's all positive, it's very likely (especially a defender) that he had a good game. If you look at that one vs Man United you will see that some mistakes are also in there.
Well yes, that's generally what ~fans do, they watch their own team. Fans tend to be biased about their own team too, it's just the rose tinted glasses.
Students of the game will want to consume as much football as possible
Exactly... so when fans don't watch certain players and then dismiss their ability what does that show?
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make?
Fans tend to watch their own team, pick their teams players for 'team of the year' debates and argue why they think that their teams players are better. There's nothing wrong with that, the issue isn't to dismiss their opinion, but rather have healthy debate about other players.
Also; just because a fan might only watch his own team, or rather not watch ~much of other teams doesn't mean he can't have an opinion on other players, he will see other players play football.
So, you're saying that if a three minute clip shows a player doing some positive things within a game, he's clearly had a good game?
You could make Bramble look like a fantastic defender if you edited clips that show him doing the positive things. Hilarious.
No, YouTube clips aren't 'evidence' to how good players are, just how good players can be
It's a bit different if you want to show someone a specific goal or a piece of skill.
Szczesny has only had one full season in the senior team though (this season) as #1.
Henry recovered from his goal drought on his debut season and still scored 26 goals in 47 matches.... That is not a very good example.
What's Kompany got to do with Ferdinand? Koscienly wasn't in the team of the season last year either yet you've included him in your side (Nor is he as good as Kompany)? Without delving into the stats think about this, Koscienly has just returned for a suspension for picking up 10 yellow cards over the course of the season, Ferdinand on the other hand as been booked once or twice max. Ferdinand has also played as many games in the centre of Man Utd's defence as anyone and we have one of the best defences in the league, Koscienly on the other hand who has played as many games as anyone in the centre of Arsenal's defence and they don't have one of the best defences in the league
That's why I said Kompany is better than Koscielny. Yellow cards don't mean anything it just shows that some defenders spend more time tackling on the ground and thus are more prone to picking up yellow cards than other kinds of defenders. Ferdinand doesn't slide often because he stays on his feet to tackle on most occasions.
You're right about defences but in the grand scheme of things that has nothing to do with individual performances. A good defender needs equally as good team mates at the back and our sidebacks are known to be culprits in our leaking of goals.
.... and half of last season. Given how De Gea has performed over the second half of the season I'd say those extra 6 months or so Chesney had last season proved to be the difference between the two during the first half of this season (not that Chesney has been faultless himself this season).
As for Henry being a poor example fair enough take Evra instead then, he was brought in January 2006 and struggled that season, he finished his first full season though (06/07) in the PFA team of the year. Some players coming to the PL need time to adapt, anyone with even a passing interest in football will tell you that.
You do realise by openly admitting that Ferdinand can tackle by staying on his feet whereas Koscienly needs to go to ground you've proved who's the better of the two don't you?
Edit: Tummys right though no one should be questioning other people's selections. Serious or not Robert including as many players from the team he supports is no more daft than you (Barry) including as many Arsenal players as you have. Not everyone can be as unbiased as me with their team selections
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Edit: Tummys right though no one should be questioning other people's selections. Serious or not Robert including as many players from the team he supports is no more daft than you (Barry) including as many Arsenal players as you have. Not everyone can be as unbiased as me with their team selections
As long as it's intelligent debate, there is nothing wrong with it.
So, Tom's team might have Bramble in it, I might say I don't' think he deserves to be there and explain why, and then explain why I picked Sagna. Tom can then either stand by his selection and further explain why, or change his mind and alter his team.
As long as it's not stupid cave man, 'Engerrrrland' type discussion it's fine. Intelligent debate should be encouraged
Fair enough.
You do realise by openly admitting that Ferdinand can tackle by staying on his feet whereas Koscienly needs to go to ground you've proved who's the better of the two don't you?
Uhhh, not really. It's just down to preference if they want to go in or try to intercept neatly like some players do (eg. Song, Busquets in DMF). Mascherano and Parker are notable for their slide tackles over conservative tackles. Doesn't necessarily make other players in the same position who don't commit to the slide better, surely? What a ridiculous statement.
Edit: Tummys right though no one should be questioning other people's selections. Serious or not Robert including as many players from the team he supports is no more daft than you (Barry) including as many Arsenal players as you have. Not everyone can be as unbiased as me with their team selections
Fair enough. I do agree your team is highly unbiased.
Just to clarify I thought Koscielny was the best defender on the pitch today in the big game.
[copied from my thread I made] {changed the line up since there are no rules)
---------------------- Krul ----------------------
Walker ----- Kompany ----- Coloccini ----- Baines
Valencia ----- Yaya Toure ----- Cabaye ----- Silva
-------------- Van Persie ----- Aguero -----------
Goalkeeper: Krul
I'm Krul's biggest fan, some of the saves he has produced this season have been sublime!!! And he is probably the reason we are where we are now!! I decided not to pick Hart as from the game I have seen Krul had produced more saves.
Defence: Walker
Excellent in defence, and a real presence going forward, has scored 2 screaming goals this season, and is looking set to be number 1 choice for England this summer. Very impressed with him so far.
Kompany
I put most of Man City's success down to this man, he's a player most strikers cannot beat, he's quick, strong but very clean. I am a real admirer of how he plays and leads the team too.
Coloccini
One of the most composed CB I have ever watched! He seems to have bags of talent on the ball, which is very rare in his position. I think he's had the best season of his life, and has been rewarded necessarily by being voted in the PFA team of the year. He has led Newcastle well, and it's clear that every player looks to the captain. When he signed a contract extension, it was one of the best moments of the season for me.
Baines
Not many quality LB's we have in the premier league, I was expecting Enrique to really shine at liverpool but their season on a whole has been hugely disappointing (if only he stayed at newcastle!!). But Baines for me is a consistent and very talented player. And I imagine will be pushing Cole for the position come this summer.
Midfield: Valencia
He's got everything, probably the quickest player in the premiership, has a fantastic strike, a great crosser of the ball. And he can also defend! Any LB would be scared to face Valencia.
Yaya Toure
This was a tough choice for me actually, becuase there are some fine candidates for this position. But no one can fault the quality of this man, I think he is best played higher up the pitch, and he causes all kinds of problems to the defence.
Cabaye
I'm sure if stats were examined over the season, Cabaye would have covered the most ground out of all midfielder's. He's constantly working, even into the last 10 minutes of a game. He has a fantastic foot, and his vision is impeccable. Ba and Cisse have a lot to be thankful for! I just hope we keep him. His partnership with Tiote is really blossoming.
Silva
If he carried his form from the first half of the season I don't think RVP would have won PFA player of the year. Silva just seems to score, and his vision and passing ability is unreal. Despite his minor dip in form, you just can't not have this man in your team!
Forwards:
Robin Van Persie
Leading goal scorer in the premiership, and lethal in front of goal. He just can't stop scoring!! I hope he doesn't get too big for his boots tho (already seems very arrogant as it is). As much as I would like to see him go abroad and stop scoring against NUFC. I think he should stay faithful to the gooners, as it's rare these days for players to do things like that.
Ageuro
Again, this was another tough choice for me. He started the season on fire, but has had a few dips in form. Had Cisse been here all season in the same form since he started in February, he would have been a no brainer. Also had Ba continued his goal scoring record before he left for the ACN, he too would have been my choice. But the presence of Ageuro and the danger he posses I decided to go with him. My only other contemplation was Dempsey, but to fit in a 4-4-2 I probably think Aguero is the choice, although I do think dempsey has done far better over the full season.
P.S My manager of the season goes to Alan Pardew. He had 52,000 critics when he joined the club, and in his first full season he has managed to get Newcastle into europe, when the pundits thought the toon would be in a relegation battle! He has a group of team players, and have developed the likes of Hatem Ben Arfa extremely well.
---------------------- Krul ----------------------
Walker ----- Kompany ----- Coloccini ----- Baines
Valencia ----- Yaya Toure ----- Cabaye ----- Silva
-------------- Van Persie ----- Aguero -----------
Goalkeeper: Krul
I'm Krul's biggest fan, some of the saves he has produced this season have been sublime!!! And he is probably the reason we are where we are now!! I decided not to pick Hart as from the game I have seen Krul had produced more saves.
Defence: Walker
Excellent in defence, and a real presence going forward, has scored 2 screaming goals this season, and is looking set to be number 1 choice for England this summer. Very impressed with him so far.
Kompany
I put most of Man City's success down to this man, he's a player most strikers cannot beat, he's quick, strong but very clean. I am a real admirer of how he plays and leads the team too.
Coloccini
One of the most composed CB I have ever watched! He seems to have bags of talent on the ball, which is very rare in his position. I think he's had the best season of his life, and has been rewarded necessarily by being voted in the PFA team of the year. He has led Newcastle well, and it's clear that every player looks to the captain. When he signed a contract extension, it was one of the best moments of the season for me.
Baines
Not many quality LB's we have in the premier league, I was expecting Enrique to really shine at liverpool but their season on a whole has been hugely disappointing (if only he stayed at newcastle!!). But Baines for me is a consistent and very talented player. And I imagine will be pushing Cole for the position come this summer.
Midfield: Valencia
He's got everything, probably the quickest player in the premiership, has a fantastic strike, a great crosser of the ball. And he can also defend! Any LB would be scared to face Valencia.
Yaya Toure
This was a tough choice for me actually, becuase there are some fine candidates for this position. But no one can fault the quality of this man, I think he is best played higher up the pitch, and he causes all kinds of problems to the defence.
Cabaye
I'm sure if stats were examined over the season, Cabaye would have covered the most ground out of all midfielder's. He's constantly working, even into the last 10 minutes of a game. He has a fantastic foot, and his vision is impeccable. Ba and Cisse have a lot to be thankful for! I just hope we keep him. His partnership with Tiote is really blossoming.
Silva
If he carried his form from the first half of the season I don't think RVP would have won PFA player of the year. Silva just seems to score, and his vision and passing ability is unreal. Despite his minor dip in form, you just can't not have this man in your team!
Forwards:
Robin Van Persie
Leading goal scorer in the premiership, and lethal in front of goal. He just can't stop scoring!! I hope he doesn't get too big for his boots tho (already seems very arrogant as it is). As much as I would like to see him go abroad and stop scoring against NUFC. I think he should stay faithful to the gooners, as it's rare these days for players to do things like that.
Ageuro
Again, this was another tough choice for me. He started the season on fire, but has had a few dips in form. Had Cisse been here all season in the same form since he started in February, he would have been a no brainer. Also had Ba continued his goal scoring record before he left for the ACN, he too would have been my choice. But the presence of Ageuro and the danger he posses I decided to go with him. My only other contemplation was Dempsey, but to fit in a 4-4-2 I probably think Aguero is the choice, although I do think dempsey has done far better over the full season.
P.S My manager of the season goes to Alan Pardew. He had 52,000 critics when he joined the club, and in his first full season he has managed to get Newcastle into europe, when the pundits thought the toon would be in a relegation battle! He has a group of team players, and have developed the likes of Hatem Ben Arfa extremely well.