Team Orders WMSC meeting on 8th Sept

FrankJH said:
Massa COULD have been a championshiop contender (after all you never know how much better he could have driven around Hungary with the win under his belt) - maybe its unlikely, sure - but mathmatically it was still very possible
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There is no way that you could seriously consider that Massa could be a championship contender.

I think somebody in a previous thread wrote the Massa vs Alonso performances in the race weekends.

Alonso outperformed Massa somewhere in the region of 60+ (Alonso) vs 5-10 (Massa).

There are very few (if any) other drivers which have so comprehensively outperformed their team-mates, as Alonso has. I do agree that before Massa's injury, he could've been a title contender, however, this year, he has been dire.

To have been outpeformed so comprehensively by your team-mate is embarrassing and grounds for dismissal. Had he been in one of the new teams, by now, he would've been replaced.

To say that he could've been a title contender, had been allowed to keep 1st place and score an extra 7 points, is ridiculous.

I was running an F1 team, I would be putting all my resources into making sure that Alonso maximises his points and encouraging Massa to score as many points as he could, for the constructors title (which is the real role of a No.2 driver). I would not be encouraging Massa to take points off of Alonso and slow him down on the track (which Massa has done plenty of times).

The fact that Alonso was able to start from the pit lane (back of the grid) in Monaco and able to cruise up behind Massa, where he stayed, is enough to tell anybody that Massa is not even in the same league as Alonso.
 
FrankJH said:
edited for accuracy - I admit I seem to recall MB laughing over the last word but I thought it interesting that he still had to add it (may be just to cover himself / BBC just in case) :)

(all Im trying to suggest is that MB seemed unsure it was proven)
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He said that to cover his backside, everyone knows they did it. Mclaren even admitted talking to williams but not understanding they wanted JV to hold the pack up and Mika and DC to pass them all.

Clears radio conversation with JV is as clear cut as Smedleys with Massa.
 
sunama said:
snip.
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IF I have worked it out correctly - before Germany the score was 68/98 in Alonso's favour, there for if Ferrari had allowed Massa to win the race it would have been 93/116 , and more importantly it would have given Massa more "fight " for the rest of the season (if he isnt allowed to win unless Alonso retires there isnt that much point in going hell for leather)

There is also the point (whether he wants to admit it or not) that last weekend was always going to be difficult for him - and to be honest I see no reason why it shouldnt be given how close he was to dying on the track

Given how often RB are tripping over themselves, and how terrible the McLaren is with the position at 93/116 with 8 races to go yes I believe he had a good chance (one Alonso DNF / DNS - score and Massa would have been right up with Alonso....and we have all seen how Alonso reacts to an "upstart" challanging him from within the same team :)
 
The No.1/No.2 system has worked well for Bennetton (94/95), for McLaren (late 90's), for Ferrari (early 00's) and then for Renault (2005/6).

The system is proven to work better than having a system in place where you have equal No.1 drivers.

The last time we saw this was in 2007, when both drivers ended up 1 point behind the winner.

The above stats show that the No.1 and No.2 system is superior to that of having equal drivers.

To even argue that Massa is remotely close to Alonso is laughable in all honesty.

As someone pointed out in another thread, Alonso has outperformed Massa by a ridiculous margin, when you consider all the practise, qualifying and race sessions. I was gobsmacked when I saw that statistic.
 
sunama said:
To even argue that Massa is remotely close to Alonso is laughable in all honesty.

As someone pointed out in another thread, Alonso has outperformed Massa by a ridiculous margin, when you consider all the practise, qualifying and race sessions. I was gobsmacked when I saw that statistic.
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For me it's not about the stats through practice sessions etc, it's the utter pounding he gives him on race pace.

Yeah a driver can get ahead through a good start but at no time this season have I seen Alonso holding up Massa.

Kimi flattered Massa, it's not the accident thats holding massa back. Alonso is just showing massa up for his true pace, while kimi lost everything that made him great once he left mclaren. Even the year he won the title the desire didn't seem to be there half the time and he's a 5th of the driver alonso is for setting a car up and driving around issues.

I would go so far as to say Hamilton is pretty lucky his first title was won against massa because I doubt he'd have a title right now had Alonso joined Ferrari instead of Raikkonen. Granted hamilton has come on a long way since then.

I can see exactly why Ferrari favour Alonso. They gave Massa well over half a season to show what he had and although alonso has joined a new team with a car and team not built around him, he's dished out one of the biggest whippings.
 
For me, what showed up Massa badly was in Monaco, when Alonso started at the back of the grid and was able to cruise up behind Massa. Massa's confidence would've taken a battering after that race.
 
sunama said:
For me, what showed up Massa badly was in Monaco, when Alonso started at the back of the grid and was able to cruise up behind Massa. Massa's confidence would've taken a battering after that race.
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For me it was when Alonso had gear selection issues and had no drive out the corners yet was still glued to massa. Yet that put alonso in risk of the cars behind because he had no drive out the corners.

Even though he couldn't downshift properly and had to over rev the engine to get a gear selected to exit the corner he was glued to his team mate.

That tells you all you need to know about the great driver Alonso is and/or the pace of his team mate.

That and Alonso getting spun to the back and another race having a drive through and still battering his team mates pace is ultimately what I'm sure led to them backing Alonso. The points on the board don't tell the full story of the season between them.
 
Question - if Ferrari do get punished (say, loss of constructor points) and Alonso doesn't, can we have Ferrari International Assistance changed to Alonso International Assistance?
 
Housey said:
Nah, needs to be Alonso Seeks Sanctions
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Works for me.

Seriously though, he was the direct beneficiary of Crashgate and came out of it free and easy. He was a beneficiary of Spygate and came out of it free and easy. And I'm absolutely certain that Renault had technical data on McLaren for a long time before they were 'caught', so he would have been a beneficiary of that.

At least someone like Schumacher has the balls to employ 'questionable' tactics out on track. Alonso hides behind the corporate toerags and whines to the press when they don't screw his team-mate to neuter any threat (back in '06 he was bawling about Fisi and the team not helping him enough, and we all know what happened in '07....).
 
Alonso does seem to be a very slippery character. He always covers his backside. One could interpret that as intelligence. Someone like Hamilton would never be able to do these things and get away with them.
 
Just saw this headline zip past in my RSS feeds

Mosley demands Ferrari Punishment!

Sorry, but its sounds like an invite to one of his parties. Is Mosley or Ferrari the one to be "punished"?
 
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