Tearing down statues

Also if people are fine with juries not upholding the law, then doesn't that make jury tampering easier? Bribery or intimidation, etc...

A jury should always uphold the law, tbh.
 
Seems stupid just change the plaques to say "notorious slave trader / bad person" or remove the plaque and it just becones a decorative statue
 
FoxEye said:
Let's not forget that there are legal avenues to have statues removed, via public debate and consensus.
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Funnily enough the legal route failed. All parties concerned claimed to not own the statue and also want it taken down, so eventually we got fed up with asking who owned it, with people refusing to claim it, so down it came. Can’t have criminal damage with no victim. But when it did, suddenly the council changed its tune. Made a very good addition to the defence and I’m glad it helped with the 4’s legal victory.
 
FoxEye said:
Also if people are fine with juries not upholding the law, then doesn't that make jury tampering easier? Bribery or intimidation, etc...

A jury should always uphold the law, tbh.
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It’s this kind of cowardice act that led to Rosa Parks being arrested. “Just following the law”.

Luckily there are brave people willing to stand up to unjust laws. It’s no surprise to me that you are not one of them.
 
edscdk said:
Seems stupid just change the plaques to say "notorious slave trader / bad person" or remove the plaque and it just becones a decorative statue
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Or you know move it to a museum for people who want to see it whilst using the original space for something else like a statue for more contemporary heroes, heck it could even be a statue for Thatcher.
 
FoxEye said:
What was the reason they did this unlawfully, when a lawful avenue exists?

a) They did not believe they could get broad consensus for the legal removal
b) They believed they were above the law
and/or
c) They believed their opinion mattered more than anyone who disagreed

Would you agree?

A jury can be pressured not by the weight of a broad consensus, but by fear of reprisals from a vocal minority/angry mob.
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You'd have to ask them, but I'd guess C.

Are you suggesting jury intimidation played a part here? It's not the first time a verdict like this has been delivered: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56853979
 
Uther said:
I don't much like the statues to Churchill, Thatcher and Cromwell, I assume nobody would mind if they were thrown in the Thames.
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That would be up to the Jury to determine. 7 wouldn't fancy your odds of equation Churchill to a slave trader in the general public's eye
 
hurfdurf said:
It’s this kind of cowardice act that led to Rosa Parks being arrested. “Just following the law”.

Luckily there are brave people willing to stand up to unjust laws. It’s no surprise to me that you are not one of them.
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In what way is the law against causing criminal damage an "unjust law".

Actually what you mean is that it should be applied when you want and not applied when you want. Not that it is unjust.

e: Btw upholding the law in this country should never be called cowardice. Unless you want to undermine the law. What would you prefer? Mob rule? Anarchy? What alternative to a lawful society do you envisage as being better than a lawful society?
 
FoxEye said:
In what way is the law against causing criminal damage an "unjust law".

Actually what you mean is that it should be applied when you want and not applied when you want. Not that it is unjust.

e: Btw upholding the law in this country should never be called cowardice. Unless you want to undermine the law. What would you prefer? Mob rule? Anarchy? What alternative to a lawful society do you envisage as being better than a lawful society?
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Would you have arrested Rosa Parks?
 
StriderX said:
Or you know move it to a museum for people who want to see it whilst using the original space for something else like a statue for more contemporary heroes, heck it could even be a statue for Thatcher.
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Yes in a museum for racists to visit. That would be popular. And Im not being sarcastic.

The funny thing is you bring up a Thatcher statue which in itself caused a lot of controversy. Even the story of how the Colston statue got placed in Bristol has a lot of controversy behind it.
 
hurfdurf said:
Would you have arrested Rosa Parks?
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She was arrested in 1955 in a different country.

Are you saying 2021 UK law is even a vaguely similar context? Until and unless we become a radically different country, I would - if I were a police officer - arrest people who broke the law, in this country.

And if I were a juror, today and in this country, I would return a verdict according to the law (my best understanding thereof). I hope that answers your question.
 
FoxEye said:
She was arrested in 1955 in a different country.

Are you saying 2021 UK law is even a vaguely similar context? Until and unless we become a radically different country, I would - if I were a police officer - arrest people who broke the law, in this country.

And if I were a juror, today and in this country, I would return a verdict according to the law (my best understanding thereof). I hope that answers your question.
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It answers everything I need to know about you
 
They seems like they were a bunch of middle/upper class idiots who can't take ownership of their own history so want to brush it under the carpet.
 
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