Temporary car (Warning: Contains fail)

Dogbreath said:
That's a pretty silly view to be honest; most car manufacturers outsource jobs like this. Perhaps Vauxhall shouldn't have involved Lotus in the VX220 - just think what an awesome car they could have made without the experience of the premier British sports car manufacturer.
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VX220 is slightly different to a Rover having some suspension designed by Lotus now isn't it.

rover416i said:
Tiff Needell loved it, saying the ZS was 'the best front wheel drive car I've ever driven'. Can't be that bad then? :rolleyes:
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Did he drive one with or without a boat anchor up front? ;)
 
InvaderGIR said:
VX220 is slightly different to a Rover having some suspension designed by Lotus now isn't it.
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Not really, both are projects Lotus have taken on for companies mass producing cars. What is difficult to understand about car manufacturers regularly outsourcing projects to companies that have more experience/expertise/resources in a particular field than they do?
 
Dogbreath said:
Not really, both are projects Lotus have taken on for companies mass producing cars. What is difficult to understand about car manufacturers regularly outsourcing projects to companies that have more experience/expertise/resources in a particular field than they do?
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I never said it was hard to understand that companies do that, I merely said I do not know how many companies do, big difference there.

It is very different, the Elise and VX220 are very similar cars, the Rover 400, MG ZS, Honda Civic VTI are all similar cars...none of these are similar to anything Lotus produces...or did I miss the reasonably sized family car that Lotus produced in the late 90s? :confused:

I do like how you've taken a comment I made way out of proportion and context to make me seem utterly thick. :)
 
InvaderGIR said:
I never said it was hard to understand that companies do that, I merely said I do not know how many companies do, big difference there.

It is very different, the Elise and VX220 are very similar cars, the Rover 400, MG ZS, Honda Civic VTI are all similar cars...none of these are similar to anything Lotus produces...or did I miss the reasonably sized family car that Lotus produced in the late 90s? :confused:

I do like how you've taken a comment I made way out of proportion and context to make me seem utterly thick. :)
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Lotus carlton (a vauxhall really :p)

I'm not trying to make a threeway argument, but I really don't think his intention is to make you look thick.

InvaderGIR said:
VX220 is slightly different to a Rover having some suspension designed by Lotus now isn't it.
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Not really.


:o

I'll leave now.
 
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InvaderGIR said:
In the late nineties? ;)



:p

Well it is really, modifying suspension components on a Rover 400 to make an MG ZS is quite different from sharing a vast number of design features including chassis, ancillaries and body design (not style).
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It shouldn't have required Vauxhall to get Lotus to rebrand their own package and palm it off as their own car though in my view. They should have been able to do it themselves.

:)

;)

I don't no where you stop with that distinction.

And sorry, I missed the late 90's part. :p
 
Biohazard said:
It shouldn't have required Vauxhall to get Lotus to rebrand their own package and palm it off as their own car though in my view. They should have been able to do it themselves.

:)

;)

I don't no where you stop with that distinction.
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Well yeah, but my point was suspension/handling only, not a vast amount of the stuff, so the VX220 example doesn't really count as that is most of a car.
 
but most of what was crossed between the platform was just that, suspension and handling essentially.

only difference is it came across with a floor plan to match; or to be more precise the floor plan it was engineered too.

not matching, or mainly tweaking/engineering components to the car.

six and half a dozon.

Floor plan design makes a difference, but that's not to say everything is just rubbish in comparison to lotus.

Or that the design is substandard, just because composite components can be improved upon.

I also have to say that I've had a few longish shots of a particular racing green 45. I hate walnut. Fords, this, bmw's the lot. It makes me want to puke myself inside out. Other than that, the interior was bland and well bland.

But, considering it was roadworthy and not especially cared for but 'tight' all the same, I found it handled good around town, pretty precise and nippy around the corners. Felt slightly go-kart like in its handling. I think it was a 1.4 but tbh I'm not really sure, it was a friend's of mine and I didn't really care it moved.

It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.
 
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InvaderGIR said:
Well it is really, modifying suspension components on a Rover 400 to make an MG ZS is quite different from sharing a vast number of design features including chassis, ancillaries and body design (not style).
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And so is developing engines, yet Lotus do that for car manufacturers as well.

Loads of car manufacturers use TRW to develop all sorts of control systems (mainly safety related); are you suggesting that TRW should not exist as all these companies should do this themselves? Outsourcing development work is absolutely standard practice.
 
InvaderGIR said:
VX220 is slightly different to a Rover having some suspension designed by Lotus now isn't it.



Did he drive one with or without a boat anchor up front? ;)
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1. No it's not, they adjusted the entirety of the suspension setup to the extent there are only one or two parts of the whole assembly that are identical between the Rover 45 and MG ZS. The rest are specific to the ZS.

2. The diesel engine uses the same suspension setup as the 180 he drove, so yes, he did. Both engines have a very similar weight, and mine is about 20bhp off the V6, while having more torque.

InvFAIL
 
rover416i said:
1. No it's not, they adjusted the entirety of the suspension setup to the extent there are only one or two parts of the whole assembly that are identical between the Rover 45 and MG ZS. The rest are specific to the ZS.
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You really don't get my point do you, the VX220 and Elise are very similar cars. Rover and Lotus do not/did not make very similar cars in the late nineties.

rover416i said:
2. The diesel engine uses the same suspension setup as the 180 he drove, so yes, he did. Both engines have a very similar weight, and mine is about 20bhp off the V6, while having more torque.
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Dry weight of 30g heavier, can't say that'll aid handling really. Saying '20bhp off the V6' means squat though, especially coupled with the engine being heavier...it's heavier and not as powerful as the 180, so won't be pulling it along and around corners the same. I really can't see 30kg helping the front suspension if it is exactly the same as the stuff in the 180.

rover416i said:
InvFAIL
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Mature.
 
InvaderGIR said:
You really don't get my point do you, the VX220 and Elise are very similar cars. Rover and Lotus do not/did not make very similar cars in the late nineties.
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I don't think you really understand what Lotus Engineering (NOT the car division which used to make the Esprit and currently the Elise) are about.

They are a specialist company who know huge amounts about suspension and handling and out source their capability to major manufacturers where, generally, a niche product is required which is outside of the day to day requirements of the normal cars. It has nothing to do with whether the car in question is a small lightweight sports car, and everything to do with understanding how the car handles and the affect of the current suspension on this and what can be improved.

The first 1.6 Ecotec engine that Vauxhall produced (around the same time that the red top was replaced with a 2.0ltr Ecotec unit) was found to be extremely tunable as it had been deliberately downrated. That was a Lotus unit.
 
I still can't believe you ever paid money for that to start with and frankly i'm even more amazed you managed to dupe someone into buying it off you too.

Where do you live? Seems like people there will buy anything, i've got all sorts of worthless junk lying around, I could make a killing :p
 
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