Tempted by some cheap GTX460 SLI action? Might want to check this out first before laying down your

[Jibber55]

Hmmm dont recall all these issue about micro stutter when everyone on this forum was saying to buy crossfired 5770's when the 5 series came out?

It's all down to Nvidia bashing. They may as well call this forum ATI overclockers...

I don't think it's Nvidia bashing mate, there's actually some good info coming out here. Its been stated TIME AFTER TIME by the OP that this is an issue with BOTH companies so I have no idea why you're feeling the need to jump to the defence of one comany or another??
There's always the same few who will take any thread as an excuse to bash one side or the other and I see the same thing in almost every forum I ever visit.

 

[Scougar]

Dont forget people also walked away from 5770 crossfire due to various issues. The microstutter argument seems to come in waves lol.

It is not an ATI forum for goodness sake. People went nuts over 8800gt and 460 1gb. It is just about where the perceived performance is at the time.

Personally I prefer Nvidia in my mind as always had less issues, but I try not to be biased. I have whatever I can afford at the time for price/performance, brand isnt a concern.

Stuttering is real, I have never experienced it, but I can imagine it. However if people are buying bang for buck cards they are unlikely to buy these to run on high res displays. Maybe bad ports and newer more tasking games bring it to the forefront, but right now... it isn't an issue for the majority.

Stuttering on cards like 5890 quad i can only imagine driver issues. Prepared to be wrong though!

 

[An Exception]

Hmmm dont recall all these issue about micro stutter when everyone on this forum was saying to buy crossfired 5770's when the 5 series came out?

It's all down to Nvidia bashing. They may as well call this forum ATI overclockers...

What is it with Nvidia fans being so sensitive on this forum?
I'm pretty sure people have been talking about Micro-stutter for a while, so yes that most probably included the time when 5770's were the popular cheap 5870 alternative.

Don't know how the below thread slipped through the net.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18174436&highlight=5970+micro+stutter

 

[jigger]

not for nv 3 screen gaming its not

Well gaming over three screens opens up a whole new dimension in failure IMO. Buts thats another story. When gamming at a HHHHHUGE resolution you need more performance than is currently available from and GPU configuration.

Gaming at 6-7 megapixels is about the only reason I can think of why someone would use multi GPU's. The problem here is, a lot people think a pair GTX460's are a better option that a single GTX480, when its not.

 

[Rroff]

I dunno: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/181?vs=158 suggests its worth it... however while this card is on special offer

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-134-OK&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=1750

£6 more than 2x GTX460 its a hard call.

 

[jigger]

Its not just the cost, its the all problems SLI brings. The fastest single card setup is where its at every time.

 

[Rroff]

SLI doesn't bring that many problems, sure its not completely problem free but most of the time it just works.

 

[jigger]

SLI brings more than twice the problems of a single card, so it should be half the price for twice the performance.

 

[widdyst]

I will admit to definitely noticing microstutter at lower frame rates on my setup.

To be honest I have never thought of it as a deal breaker though. I think its just a case of adjusting Game settings to keep fps High.

I will also admit to not reading all of the op's scientific explanation on this as I dont need proof of microstutter as I already know it exists.

But, I find some of the argument at cross purposes with itself.

I mainly went for a sli setup to increase fps, Not to go to silly high res and run at 30fps.

If what a lot of people are saying is true (And I agree) That microstutter is more noticeable at lower fps. Then what is the point in showing a comparison at a silly high res that lowers fps so far as to just exaggerate the issue ?

I dont know what everybodys individual reasons are for going for a multi GPU setup, e-peen, eye candy, Higher FPS ? But for me it was for higher frames with decent levels of eye candy. and a second hand card was a cheaper upgrade than a brand new higher end model.

I think we should just accept any system has its limitations and so, For me at least, if microstutter where to become a big issue I will just back off on the candy whilst I am saving for my next GPU upgrade.
I respect what the op is trying to say here BUT really is it such a big deal ?

 

[oweneades]

SLI brings more than twice the problems of a single card, so it should be half the price for twice the performance.

Could you clarify this point please.

 

[An Exception]

If what a lot of people are saying is true (And I agree) That microstutter is more noticeable at lower fps. Then what is the point in showing a comparison at a silly high res that lowers fps so far as to just exaggerate the issue ?

Umm, I think the original You tuber did the test at whatever settings it took to get 30FPS to compare what a single GPU looked like compared to SLI.
I think 30FPS was chosen so the effects of micro-stutter were easily visible on a small youtube video as some people may not know what they are looking for and miss it at 60FPS. Also 30FPS is a playable frame-rate on a single GPU so it's not an unreasonably low FPS to do the test with.
While micro stutter is still visible at 60FPS, it wouldn't be the most strait-forward FPS to shop someone on a small youtube video who doesn't know what micro-stutter looks like, if they haven't seen it previously.

I dont know what everybodys individual reasons are for going for a multi GPU setup, e-peen, eye candy, Higher FPS ? But for me it was for higher frames with decent levels of eye candy. and a second hand card was a cheaper upgrade than a brand new higher end model.


I respect what the op is trying to say here BUT really is it such a big deal ?

The big deal I suppose is the fact that people are buying up cheap cards to run in SLI thinking they are better performance than a single GPU priced in the same ballpark because they are getting 20% more FPS when in reality they are actually getting worse performance than a single GPU setup.
And the people who claim not to have any micro stutter are usually running systems that would run just as smooth with a single card anyway.

So in short the big deal is about waking up the sheeple blinded by the misleading FPS shown in reviews...

 

[An Exception]

Could you clarify this point please.

Twice as many recorded driver issues with regards to multi GPU's over single GPU's

 

[oweneades]

Twice as many recorded driver issues with regards to multi GPU's over single GPU's

I am slightly confused by your reponse here.

What do you mean by 'Twice as many recorded driver issues'?

I am specifically querying the recorded part. Are we talking twice as many recorded by different users around the net or twice as many simply because there are two GPU's?

 

[RavenXXX2]

Here you go again singling out SLI, what about people that save money and go the 5770 xfire path to get better performance than a 5870, do they not suffer from microstuter at low FPS as well, as said....

Obvious troll is obvious.


Infraction time.

Also the video evidence is void as I am running Multi GPU setup so the micro stutter is unbearable.

 

[An Exception]

I am slightly confused by your reponse here.

What do you mean by 'Twice as many recorded driver issues'?

I am specifically querying the recorded part. Are we talking twice as many recorded by different users around the net or twice as many simply because there are two GPU's?

Well if you look at most of the threads screaming about drivers issues, the large majority of the time they are complaining about a problem that affects multi-GPU setups.
Maybe I'm wrong, but this is the impression I get, and which I thought was relatively widely known.

 

[widdyst]

Umm, I think the original You tuber did the test at whatever settings it took to get 30FPS to compare what a single GPU looked like compared to SLI.
I think 30FPS was chosen so the effects of micro-stutter were easily visible on a small youtube video as some people may not know what they are looking for and miss it at 60FPS. Also 30FPS is a playable frame-rate on a single GPU so it's not an unreasonably low FPS to do the test with.
While micro stutter is still visible at 60FPS, it wouldn't be the most strait-forward FPS to shop someone on a small youtube video who doesn't know what micro-stutter looks like, if they haven't seen it previously.



The big deal I suppose is the fact that people are buying up cheap cards to run in SLI thinking they are better performance than a single GPU priced in the same ballpark because they are getting 20% more FPS when in reality they are actually getting worse performance than a single GPU setup.
And the people who claim not to have any micro stutter are usually running systems that would run just as smooth with a single card anyway.

So in short the big deal is about waking up the sheeple blinded by the misleading FPS shown in reviews...

So If microstutter is barely detectable as you say at frames of 60 and above ..........Whats the point in discussing it ? Isnt the main point of going sli/crossfire to increase performance ?
Most multi gpu setups I would have thought run at frames higher than 60fps in most games, Mine does at least.

Also I can guarantee to you my system does not run at the same frames with only 1 card installed. I have a very noticable increase in performance which in turn in my opinion gives smoother gameplay with sli enabled.
I have played most games and even run a lot of my own benchmarks with sli/trisli. I am currently running 2 cards but did have 3, After A lot of benchmarks confirmed what I was thinking whilst playing, I personally didnt see enough improvment in 3 cards opposed to 2.
I Have always had smooth gameplay running sli the only game where microstutter has impacted on my overall enjoyment is crysis. And as you say that was only when the frames dropped around 30. So as I said previously all systems have limitations, I found mine and simply backed off on the settings to make the game enjoyable.
I am not saying SLI/crossfire is perfect, I am not saying It is ultimately better than the best most expensive single card solution. But If it does happen that a sli/crossfire setup comes in cheaper than the best single GPU and gives a performance increase to boot, Isnt a little microstutter at low fps a fair compromise ?

 

[An Exception]

So If microstutter is barely detectable as you say at frames of 60 and above ..........Whats the point in discussing it ?

The point as I have already said before is because it is noticeable EVEN at 60FPS (allot of games will dip below 60fps also) although to some more than others, and a faster single GPU won't give you ANY noticeable micro stutter even then playing at less than 60FPS, so which is the ideal option do you think?

Isnt the main point of going sli/crossfire to increase performance ?
Most multi gpu setups I would have thought run at frames higher than 60fps in most games, Mine does at least.

I all depends on what res you game at and what games you run at what settings.
SLI/CF increases raw FPS substantially but has unwanted side effects that reduce the benefit of the high FPS substantially.

Which GPU's would you pick to run a res of 1080p or higher?
2xGTX460 1gb
1xGTX480

Maybe the 460's would win in terms of Raw FPS but I would personally pick the 480 for a noticeably smoother and therefore better experience.

So which would you choose?

 

[Rroff]

Could someone with GTX460 SLI and fraps get me a frametimes run of the default crysis benchmark at either 1680x1050 (preferably) or 1920x1080 with DX10 Very High settings and 4x AA? so I can make a comparision. (Hit benchmark key immediatly when the scene starts - it will auto stop capture when the benchmark ends after 3 runs).

 

[bhavv]

As an owner of 2x460's, I must say some of you are being very...........Dramatic.

Can't say I've noticed it at all.......

+1.

Used plenty of ATI crossfire setups, plus SLI GTX 460s now, I have NEVER seen any kind of microstutter that the anti - SLI / Crossfire crowd keep complaining about, when they themselves have never even used such a setup (at an appropriate resolution, not 4000x1000 or whatever on two 1 Gb 460s!).

In total, I've used:

SLI 6800s
Crossfire 3850
Crossfire 4850
Crossfire 4870
Crossfire 5770
SLI GTX 460

From the 3850s onwards I've had a 1920x1200 monitor, and I have played every single game fully maxed out with at least 4x AA and 16x AF.

I have never once seen any microstutter. I have perfect colour vision, and dont need glasses, and I have never seen anything wrong in any of these setups.

I'm currently enjoying playing everything and anything maxed out with 8x transparent AA with absolutely no lag or slowdown whatsoever. Everything is silky smooth, though I'm currently only playing Dragon Age and Worms Reloaded.

The point as I have already said before is because it is noticeable EVEN at 60FPS

No, you are completely wrong and lying. No it isnt noticable at 60 FPS. I have turned Vsync on LOTs of times which sets my max FPS to 60, and I NEVER see any microstutter, neither does anyone else who is using an SLI GTX 460 setup. No one using this setup or an earlier crossfire / SLI one on a normal 1080p monitor have ever noticed microstutter in any of their games.

If you are running a triple monitor setup and expect silky smooth framerates, then you need to have a pair of *2 Gb* 5870s anyway.

Thats probably another reason why there was lag in the video in the OP, NOT ENOUGH VIDEO RAM on the GTX 460s for the resolution you were using them at.

 

[An Exception]

^^^
Can you not see micro stutter in the below video that raven posted earlier saying there was no micro stutter with 460's?

While not massively distracting it is still visible at high FPS which I generally just find annoying but like others say not exactly a deal breaker, if you can't see it then you are immune to it and unable to perceive it unless at really low FPS.
Maybe it's because you have always used dual GPU setups that you have gotten used to it or something, who knows?
All I know is I went from always using single GPU's to SLI/CF (8800 & 4870) and have been disappointed with stutter every time, so much so I ended up removing the extra card and selling it on as it just wasn't needed and in my view made things worse.