Terminator: Dark Fate

ianh said:
I'm sad to say that I don't think Hollywood currently has either directors with the right creative vision,
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I think some of the problem is that with everyone having their own streaming service the talent pool in Hollywierd is being spread too thin.. I counted something like 8 producers on the new Picard show, and some of those are overseeing multiple shows at once - too much work and not enough time for them to make it well.

Couple that with the leftist hollywood types that live in a cultural bubble, fostering their leftist, virtue signalling, woke politics on everyone is turning off people in droves..

What happened to TV/Films, you know, entertaining people, with out feeling the need to preach to them. I agree that it's subtle or subliminal and therfore some might not see it, but once you have seen it you can see it in most shows these days - especially Sci-Fi.. :(
 
Terminator was ruined by the woke left, got it...

It would be nice to read a thread where the lefty boogiemen aren't blamed for everything these days.

Incidentally Picard has 15 'executive producers' - executive producers don't really do anything and it's just a contractual obligation to credit them.
 
VincentHanna said:
Terminator was ruined by the woke left, got it...
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While you may think thats the general opinion (especially with the post above you), I would say instead that it was ruined by being an objectively "poor" film, with poor CGI, poor story, poor script and poor direction which alienated most of the fanbase by writing off the entire original franchise canon within the first 2 minutes in a massively failed attempt to reboot the franchise, a bit like the Last Jedi's "forget the past, kill it if you have to" attitude which, again, alienated that fanbase.

However none of those problems above are due to it being "woke" or "left" for me or the majority of the fans, especially when you consider that the entire original canon beloved by fans is very progressive, based entirely around a strong female character being the fans favourite.

I think that the studio made numerous mistakes almost designed to annoy the fanbase, from the advertising highlighting only the "3 strong female characters" with no John Connor anywhere which started to make fans think "hmmmm this looks like a reboot" which is a negative, to the director telling fans "if you don't like these 3 strong women then you are the problem" alienating even more fans who already love the strong female character of Sarah Connor (showing the directors lack of canon/fan understanding - another warning sign to fans) instead of, again, just highlighting the story and getting fans excited.

Don't misunderstand, there were people who saw this only through an anti-feminist lens and complained loudly if in small numbers, and those people were not fans of Terminator, whose strong female role model Sarah Connor is more important in the films than the male "saviour of humanity" John Connor was, but in the end, blaming the failure of this film, just like Ghostbusters 2016, just like Charlies Angels etc - on "anti-woke/left" male fanbois, rather than being seeing that the films were just objectively poor instead (because thats easier to accept over the truth), just leads more people away from the brand/franchise/films.
 
VincentHanna said:
I mean, I broadly agree with you. The movie fell apart for me when Arnie came in and was a drape fitter with a concious. It was badly written.

I'm just fed up of seeing posts on here that somehow "the left" are to blame for everything these days.
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Also the savior had to be an illegal Mexican immigrant that had to get in the US illegaly(given the current orange man bad political climate), they killed John in the first five minutes, they relegated Arnie to a f'ing seamstress only there to bring in fans. When you look at the film more closely it shows the agenda of the writers, it's agenda first then write the film around it - I pay to be entertained not preached to..

T1 and T2 are masterpieces, all the others aren't good enough to be counted - they are just Rubbish, that is putting it mildly.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Sarah Connor, a strong female character before it was hip to have a strong female character. She was excellent in T2, totally captured he change from a weak girly girl in the first film into a tough, brawny hard bitch - super character development, which don't seem to exist, done well, these days.
 
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hominid said:
Also the savior had to be an illegal Mexican immigrant that had to get in the US illegaly(given the current orange man bad political climate), they killed John in the first five minutes, they relegated Arnie to a f'ing seamstress only there to bring in fans. When you look at the film more closely it shows the agenda of the writers, it's agenda first then write the film around it - I pay to be entertained not preached to..

T1 and T2 are masterpieces, all the others aren't good enough to be counted - they are just Rubbish, that is putting it mildly.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Sarah Connor, a strong female character before it was hip to have a strong female character. She was excellent in T2, totally captured he change from a weak girly girl in the first film into a tough, brawny hard bitch - super character development, which don't seem to exist, done well, these days.
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Most of the things you mentioned are James Camerons idea...the guy who wrote and directed those Masterpieces you mentioned

The decision to kill the John Connor character came from Cameron, who wanted to surprise audiences who had become invested in the character's mythology: "It's like, 'Let's just get that right off the table. Let's just pull the carpet out from underneath all of our assumptions of what a Terminator movie is going to be about. Let's just put a bullet in his head at a pizzeria in the first 45 seconds.'"[70] Cameron said that John's death serves as "a springboard for the story to show Sarah's ultimate trauma from which she only begins to recover right at the end of the new film. She's driven by hatred, by revenge. ... Her badassery comes from a place of deep hurt and deep pain."[70]

Cameron devised the idea of a T-800 Terminator that is "just out there in this kind of limbo" for more than 20 years after carrying out an order, becoming more human "in the sense that he's evaluating the moral consequences of things that he did, that he was ordered to do back in his early days, and really kind of developing a consciousness and a conscience". Cameron considered this iteration of the character to be more interesting than those featured in his first two films, saying, "We've seen the Terminator that was programmed to be bad; you've seen the one that was programmed to be good, to be a protector. But in both cases, neither one of them have free will."[44] Schwarzenegger enjoys interior decorating, so Cameron suggested that his T-800 character in the film have a drapery business
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VincentHanna said:
Most of the things you mentioned are James Camerons idea...
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Yes, he's well past his prime - he hasn't done anything good for nearly 20 years.. It's not just him it's almost the whole of hollywood that are massively over-reacting in a post Harvey Weinstein era. The phrase you are looking for is 'Subverting their expectations', that's why now shows that we have grown up with all have to have a 'strong female character' as the lead - and if they are ethnically diverse all the better. More woke points that way, it's all about virtue signalling that they are culturally superior except, as I said, Hollywood, Like London in a Brexit era, exists in a bubble and most of the people that watch the shows don't share the same politics - Like me!

Star trek Discovery/ Dr Who / Star Trek Picard / Bat Woman / Terminator/ Star Wars, and I'm sure there are lots more in the works, all have been either written or ret-conned to be now female led. Do you think all those franchises are excellent shows? Well written shows? If they were they would have made billions, They KILLED Star Wars for christs sake - The biggest franchise in the world is now dead.

I don't care about having female leads, I've watched lots of female led shows before in my 40+ years, but it's the way they put the ideology first and white men are resigned to bumbling idiots. Again 5 writers and 19 producers for Picard is going to be a mess, you may not like it but people don't like this stuff being forced on them they just want to be entertained.

Just wait for the Avatar films and see what they are like, then you can say if Cameron is a genius or not. So far Terminator - Dark Fate has lost something like $100m so far, I doubt we'll see another for a decade or so, if at all.
 
hominid said:
So far Terminator - Dark Fate has lost something like $100m so far, I doubt we'll see another for a decade or so, if at all.
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Studios still think that the franchise will eventually become massive again if they just keep rebooting it enough times, even though most people realise that it won't come back to its former glory. That's the Hollywood bubble in action, divorced from reality and unable to see what is obvious to most others.
 
ianh said:
Studios still think that the franchise will eventually become massive again if they just keep rebooting it enough times, even though most people realise that it won't come back to its former glory. That's the Hollywood bubble in action, divorced from reality and unable to see what is obvious to most others.
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If they actually done a future war movie as seen in the flashbacks it could well work, that's the one area they haven't tried yet. Salvation was vaguely in that type of setting but it was essentially a movie set in a desert with bugger all going on.
 
Gerard said:
If they actually done a future war movie as seen in the flashbacks it could well work, that's the one area they haven't tried yet. Salvation was vaguely in that type of setting but it was essentially a movie set in a desert with bugger all going on.
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Now that the "original" version of the future war is gone forever with the death of John Connor and the stopping of Skynet and it's iconic machine designs (Terminators, H-K's etc), would people still be as interested in seeing the new "Dani Ramos vs Legion" version of a future war, where we've got virtually zero info bar one single scene showing how deadly a Rev-9 is? I'm not sure TBH.
 
ianh said:
Now that the "original" version of the future war is gone forever with the death of John Connor and the stopping of Skynet and it's iconic machine designs (Terminators, H-K's etc), would people still be as interested in seeing the new "Dani Ramos vs Legion" version of a future war, where we've got virtually zero info bar one single scene showing how deadly a Rev-9 is? I'm not sure TBH.
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They could just totally ignore that movie much in the same way they totally ignored Terminator 3.
 
Gray2233 said:
They could just totally ignore that movie much in the same way they totally ignored Terminator 3.
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Technically any Future War movie will never need to ignore 3, despite 3 often being said to one of the weaker "follow up" movies. This is because it doesn't actually break the original 1 and 2 stories to reach its story on film stage and can use it as a Future War setup lead in. Unlike Salvation, where the war was noticably... well. Nothing like what was shown before (Even the Plasma weapons don't look the same when it was finally used on screen). And that movie slightly conflicts with the setup of how John was the saviour of the Human race by being some local branch leader, instead of being the one in charge as shown in 1 and 2. Genisys... Well, the less said of that the better, but that went all over the place and started the multiple-time line shenanigans that no one wants to see for a movie setup.

So, 1 and 2 always tied together, 3 can be ignored, but I think it's ending helped allow it to be accepted as the only real follow up out of the non original two so far, even if it was weak throughout. I mean come on, it's one of the few films that had the "bad guy" win at the end (Humanity lost). So yeah, 3 is the only one I think that can be salvaged and reused, the others went all over the place and can't be followed up on really and tied back up with the original.
 
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