Terror Plot Foiled

reflex · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:05

I thought it was a joke to begin with.

I can imagine Tony Blair or some politician saying "we are going to ban all muslim looka-likes and people with muslims names so the rest of u can fly without delay"

Al Vallario · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:07

bottletop said:
There would have been virtually no delays, only a small section of travellers would have been inconvenienced instead of everybody, and innocent muslim travelers would hopefully have realised that these problems stem from within their section of the community and it would be in their best interests to assist in stopping this sort of radicalism in future

That wouldn't work for a number of reasons:

There would be widespread public outrage, from both the Muslim community and others who are against institutional racism and segregation of society. It would be like the cartoon scandal all over again, except many times worse.
You can't tar everyone with the same brush. Extremists such as those which carried out the 9/11 and 7/7 attacks are the minority, and despite what you hear in the press I have no doubt that 99.99999% of muslims don't want anything to do with them. To put things in context, do you think it would be acceptable to ban all English football fans from attending the World Cup because a handful of hooligans cause trouble? Do you really think people would just accept that and move on without causing a fuss?
Elaborating on the previous example, do you think it is the task of football fans to stop others from partaking in hooliganism? It is totally unacceptable to think that ordinary Muslims are responsible for what Muslim extremists do.

av.

Visage · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:09

bottletop said:
It may seem racist (it's meant to be practical) but I can't understand why the powers that be didn't ban all people of "indian" appearance and all people with muslim names from flying for a few days.

There would have been virtually no delays, only a small section of travellers would have been inconvenienced instead of everybody, and innocent muslim travelers would hopefully have realised that these problems stem from within their section of the community and it would be in their best interests to assist in stopping this sort of radicalism in future

Not a bad idea. The obvious flaw is that not all muslims are dark skinned.

We could always get around that by forcing muslims (of any skin colour) to wear some kind of identifying emblem, such as a golden crescent at all times.

That would be an excellent solution. Perhaps even part of a wider final one.

Toryglen-boy · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:10

i fly out to Australia next weekend, i hope its all sorted by then!

no MP3 player on a 6hr then 13.5hr flight!

cleanbluesky · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:11

Al Vallario said:
[*]Elaborating on the previous example, do you think it is the task of football fans to stop others from partaking in hooliganism? It is totally unacceptable to think that ordinary Muslims are responsible for what Muslim extremists do.
[/list]

av.

Football hooliganism isn't political, there is no political motivation to agree or disagree with.

The reason that many Muslims are passive to terrorism is because many agree with the Islamic Political aims if they are not enamoured with the methods

Toryglen-boy · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:11

Visage said:
Not a bad idea. The obvious flaw is that not all muslims are dark skinned.

We could always get around that by forcing muslims (of any skin colour) to wear some kind of identifying emblem, such as a golden crescent at all times.

That would be an excellent solution. Perhaps even part of a wider final one.

i take it your trying to sound like a nazi to be sarcastic, right ?

:confused:

reflex · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:13

Toryglen-boy said:
i take it your trying to sound like a nazi to be sarcastic, right ?

Yeah i guess so unless the skinheads and the swastikas come out and post as soon as theres a chance to spur some racist crap.

growse · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:14

Wonderful:

Airline plot was 'direct threat' to U.S. - White House - RTRS
10 August 2006 09:59:53 Originally published on:10 August 2006 09:51:47

WASHINGTON, Aug 10 (Reuters) - A foiled plot to blow up flights from Britain to America was a direct threat to the United States, White House spokesman Tony Snow said on Thursday

Times are EST.

Visage · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:14

Toryglen-boy said:
i take it your trying to sound like a nazi to be sarcastic, right ?

Who said anything about Nazis?

reflex · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:15

Visage said:
Who said anything about Nazis?

Nobody said anything about Nazis really but assuming your being serious

"Marking muslims"

Is very similar to what Hitler and the Nazi's did.

bottletop · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:16

Al Vallario said:
That wouldn't work for a number of reasons:

There would be widespread public outrage, from both the Muslim community and others who are against institutional racism and segregation of society. It would be like the cartoon scandal all over again, except many times worse.

You can't tar everyone with the same brush. Extremists such as those which carried out the 9/11 and 7/7 attacks are the minority, and despite what you hear in the press I have no doubt that 99.99999% of muslims don't want anything to do with them. To put things in context, do you think it would be acceptable to ban all English football fans from attending the World Cup because a handful of hooligans cause trouble? Do you really think people would just accept that and move on without causing a fuss?

Elaborating on the previous example, do you think it is the task of football fans to stop others from partaking in hooliganism? It is totally unacceptable to think that ordinary Muslims are responsible for what Muslim extremists do.

av.

1. society is already segregated as jon snow's programme demonstrated the other day. It would certainly show what living in a segregated society is like when the choice for segragation and the conditions under which it is imposed is made by the majority/the state instead of the minority...though I believe complete integration is the much preferred choice.
2. I have no doubt 99.99% of muslims are fantastic. However, these threats come form 0.01% of the muslim popluation which makes up perhaps 3% of the UK population. Better to have 3% inconvenienced than 100%
3. It is not up to other fans to police hooliganism. However, when hooliganism occurs the penalty may well be a ban of all that teams supporters from attending a match. Note that only a minority of the football supporting population is affected (i.e. that teams supporters), not the entire country (i.e. all football supporters in general).

Al Vallario · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:17

Toryglen-boy said:
i fly out to Australia next weekend, i hope its all sorted by then!

no MP3 player on a 6hr then 13.5hr flight!

Personally I don't see what's wrong with these new airline security measures. In fact, I'm surprised the airlines haven't had these security measures in place for years (since the 9/11 attacks, for instance). Banning electrical key fobs and reading material (books, magazines etc.) sounds a bit over-the-top (although understandable) as a long-term solution, but otherwise I think the new measures are perfectly acceptable. Do you genuinely need more than the bare essentials (documents, wallet, money, keys, medicine etc.) to make it through a long-haul flight? Every long-haul flight I've been on has had in-flight entertainment (movies, personal music players or pre-set playlists etc.), and if it didn't I would just sleep through the flight

bottletop · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:19

Visage said:
Not a bad idea. The obvious flaw is that not all muslims are dark skinned.

We could always get around that by forcing muslims (of any skin colour) to wear some kind of identifying emblem, such as a golden crescent at all times.

That would be an excellent solution. Perhaps even part of a wider final one.

lol. Rather than getting on your moral high horse with accusations of nazism, just ask whether it would keep the planes flying with the minimum of disruption for the absolute minimum of passengers?

Visage · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:19

reflex said:
Nobody said anything about Nazis really but assuming your being serious

"Marking muslims"

Is very similar to what Hitler and the Nazi's did.

Really? Hitler and the Nazis marked Muslims?

I bet they didnt have any islamic terrorism then, did they?

reflex · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:20

Visage said:
Really? Hitler and the Nazis marked Muslims?

I bet they didnt have any islamic terrorism then, did they?

I didn't say he did, i said its similar.

ie) Similar to the marking Nazis did to ethnic 'groups'

Visage · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:20

bottletop said:
lol. Rather than getting on your moral high horse with accusations of nazism, just ask whether it would keep the planes flying with the minimum of disruption for the absolute minimum of passengers?

In the short term or long term?

Borris · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:21

Visage said:
Perhaps even part of a wider final one.

'Raus!

reflex · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:24

Well im sorry but 'guessing if somebody looks like a muslim and is hence a threat', 'rejecting people with muslim names' and 'marking muslims with golden crescent at all times' is not really what i expected from the OCUK forum... :eek:

Toryglen-boy · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:24

Al Vallario said:
Personally I don't see what's wrong with these new airline security measures. In fact, I'm surprised the airlines haven't had these security measures in place for years (since the 9/11 attacks, for instance). Banning electrical key fobs and reading material (books, magazines etc.) sounds a bit over-the-top (although understandable) as a long-term solution, but otherwise I think the new measures are perfectly acceptable. Do you genuinely need more than the bare essentials (documents, wallet, money, keys, medicine etc.) to make it through a long-haul flight? Every long-haul flight I've been on has had in-flight entertainment (movies, personal music players or pre-set playlists etc.), and if it didn't I would just sleep through the flight

i hear you, but have you ever flown to Australia? this is my third flight there ... i leave here on the Saturday and get there on the Monday its a very very long journey, and the inflight entertainment sucks, at least it does on Emirates anyway ...

bottletop · 10 Aug 2006 at 15:24

Visage said:
In the short term or long term?

short term. Long term oil depletion will ensure passenger flights are nothing but a temporary phenomenon