Terror Plot Foiled

Sleepy · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:34

cleanbluesky said:
You assume that there is any value in being subjectively 'better' than them, I think Zip's mentality is more utilitarian.

I have to behave according to a moral and ethical code and any judgements I make will of course be guided by my beliefs. Thats a basic feature of being human.

To not to do so would require passivity which is itself a choice. TBH this is a philisophical debate which I dont think brings anything to this immediate debate.

cleanbluesky · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:35

Visage said:
I was being serious.

I think you're a terrorist, so you should be executed.

I believe Zip would rather that privaledge were afforded to security professionals and only in situations whereby it may be of benefit to stem terrorism

daz · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:36

Reports have begun trickling in that security measures will be widened to include items not previously in the restrictions. Among these banned items are reptiles and amphibians. One security official was quoted as saying "Get those mother******' snakes off my mother******' plane!"

MookJong · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:36

Visage said:
I was being serious.

I think you're a terrorist, so you should be executed.

Only a fair trial can save you now Zip.....oh you just abolished those didn't you....shame.

Zip · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:36

Visage said:
I was being serious.

I think you're a terrorist, so you should be executed.

See the different between my comment and yours is i havnt been under surveillance or been arrested or have any chemicals in my house.

There for there is would be no evidence at all and i cant be caught doing anything other then going on the interweb.

And you dont have authority to do any searches like that. Just like i dont have Authority to do any searches on the People they caught today.

Borris · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:37

Visage said:
I think you're a terrorist, so you should be executed.

I have already forwarded his IP to various security services, with the accusation of sedition and conspiracy.

cleanbluesky · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:38

Sleepy said:
I have to behave according to a moral and ethical code and any judgements I make will of course be guided by my beliefs. Thats a basic feature of being human.

And those 'moral and ethical codes' are a construction afforded to you by the society in which you live. The concept that they are an instrinsic feature is another construction, as one man's morality is not neccessarily that of another. Some consider it appropriate to strap explosives to a child and shout "Allah Akhbar" as the child detonates. Ultimately appropriate behaviour is dictated by your society, and society also has a habit of approving of people who fight in their favour... sometimes even if their methods are unsavoury.

To not to do so would require passivity which is itself a choice. TBH this is a philisophical debate which Id ont think brings anything to this immediate debate.

I know, but adding this into the debate is more interesting that more sensationalism by certain posters or explaining the concept of trial and evidence to Zip.

Visage · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:39

Borris said:
I have already forwarded his IP to various security services, with the accusation of sedition and conspiracy.

Me too. You cant be too careful when the threat level is Critical.

IceBus · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:39

Zip said:
I Dont mean like these things.
I mean like the 21 guys they caught today that clearly had intent of taking down the planes.

If its not so clear then they should get a trial.

But todays seems to be as clear as day and night

Who cares about due process and a fair trial eh?

Borris · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:39

Zip said:
See the different between my comment and yours is i havnt been under surveillance or been arrested or have any chemicals in my house.

There for there is would be no evidence at all and i cant be caught doing anything other then going on the interweb.

And you dont have authority to do any searches like that. Just like i dont have Authority to do any searches on the People they caught today.

You seem to be missing the whole reuirement of accountability.

And the separation of government into it's four distinct pillars - legislative, judicial, executive and the people.

You mention authority - Who grants that authority? By what oversight?

Sleepy · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:40

Zip said:
See the different between my comment and yours is i havnt been under surveillance or been arrested or have any chemicals in my house.

There for there is would be no evidence at all and i cant be caught doing anything other then going on the interweb.

And you dont have authority to do any searches like that. Just like i dont have Authority to do any searches on the People they caught today.

The police don't need evidence to arrest someone, they just need a suspicion. and plenty here now suspect you.

cleanbluesky · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:40

daz said:
"Get those mother******' snakes off my mother******' plane!"

Hahahaha. Seats in the upright position while the plane is in Fright!

(Do you get it? 'fight' sounds a bit like 'flight'. Absolutely hilarious!)

Seft · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:40

Borris said:
Market makers are going to have a field day - everyone loves a bit of volatility.

I cover retail stocks, so here's hoping that all the punters stuck in the airports are splurging at WH Smith

Sleepy · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:42

cleanbluesky said:
I know, but adding this into the debate is more interesting that more sensationalism by certain posters or explaining the concept of trial and evidence to Zip.

I don't know Whack-a-Zip has a certain appeal

cleanbluesky · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:42

Borris said:
You mention authority - Who grants that authority? By what oversight?

Society does. But society also defines trial by jury as 'fair'... what is intrinsicly more appropriate about trial by jury, compared to covert-ops executions if they were recognised as justified by the will of society...

Zip · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:44

Sleepy said:
The police don't need evidence to arrest someone, they just need a suspicion. and plenty here now suspect you.

Strange that i stick up for the government most the time in this Thread.
Even Dirty dog said i was a model Citizen

Visage · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:45

Zip said:
Strange that i stick up for the government most the time in this Thread.
Even Dirty dog said i was a model Citizen

Arent models generally quite dim?

Sleepy · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:45

cleanbluesky said:
And those 'moral and ethical codes' are a construction afforded to you by the society in which you live. The concept that they are an instrinsic feature is another construction, as one man's morality is not neccessarily that of another. Some consider it appropriate to strap explosives to a child and shout "Allah Akhbar" as the child detonates. Ultimately appropriate behaviour is dictated by your society, and society also has a habit of approving of people who fight in their favour... sometimes even if their methods are unsavoury.

Agree but that does not mean that we cannot act on them. Even if we end up in a Darwinian fight over moral codes, being alive means making decisions and you've got to arive at those choices by some means other than by the flip of a coin.

IceBus · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:46

cleanbluesky said:
Society does. But society also defines trial by jury as 'fair'... what is intrinsicly more appropriate about trial by jury, compared to covert-ops executions if they were recognised as justified by the will of society...

The level of accountability that a jury is held to compared to that of a covert-ops squad. The whole point of trial by jury is the public examination of evidence by a jury of your peers, presented by trained professionals in the form of lawyers and presided over by an experienced judge. Far more individual decisions are made in a jury than in a militaristic chain of command.

Digital Punk · 10 Aug 2006 at 12:47

fozzybear said:
They probably won't regard themselves as British though. Being born in this country shouldn't neccessarily mean you're British. If my English mother and father lived in Australia when they had me, would that make me an Aussie?

If you'd lived there all your life, then yes.