Tesla Model X P100D

pioneer2000 said:
Electricity isn’t cheap. Electric cars are far more efficient than petrol cars.

1 litre of petrol is approximately the equivalent of 10kWh. So a Tesla is doing 300 miles on 6 litres of petrol.

Engineering explained has done a good you tube video on this very subject for his model 3 performance.
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No your looking at it wrong. If a Tesla has a 300 mile range and it costs £10 to fill the battery up that’s £10 a tank let’s say.

If I put £10 worth of diesel in my car which is quite economical I’ll get about 100 miles give or take.

It’s much cheaper to run a ev than my car.

I’m talking about cost your talking about efficiency.
 
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satchef1 said:
But that's largely due to tax, rather than the relative profit margins of electricity and diesel.
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Yes that also goes back to my earlier point. Their will be a big deficit in fuel duty that the government will also look to recoup somewhere. I’m not sure how much that figure is but I imagine it’s quite a large amount.

£30 billion + in fuel duty will need to be made up elsewhere. Perhaps that will be lumped on top of the cost to charge the battery’s.
 
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Doobedoo said:
Or people charge almost exclusively from home which is fine it makes sense but then energy companies see that also as an opportunity and due to increased demand on the grid decide to raise prices. Now it cost me much more to power my home yet I don’t have an ev.
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At the moment, home chargers that installed under the OLEV grant are wifi enabled and call back to "base". No doubt collecting lots of charging information and being handed back to government departments. I think a more realistic scenario is that all home chargers in the future will have some kind of data collection that attaches a tax to home charging rather than everybody ending up with more expensive electricity.
 
Doobedoo said:
Yes that also goes back to my earlier point. Their will be a big deficit in fuel duty that the government will also look to recoup somewhere. I’m not sure how much that figure is but I imagine it’s quite a large figure.
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See the previous page: tax equates to around 9p per mile on a 40mpg petrol car (so 6p per mile on an efficient Diesel).

Take the average, 7.5p per mile, then find a way to apply it to EVs (per mile road pricing?). Problem solved. The running cost of cars doesn't change greatly, the tax take doesn't change greatly. But the vehicles are cleaner.

Not much changes on this front either then.
 
Desmo said:
At the moment, home chargers that installed under the OLEV grant are wifi enabled and call back to "base". No doubt collecting lots of charging information and being handed back to government departments. I think a more realistic scenario is that all home chargers in the future will have some kind of data collection that attaches a tax to home charging rather than everybody ending up with more expensive electricity.
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That’s good. You’ll be ok if you have solar panels I guess but I imagine the cost to charge the battery will become more expensive as more and more are sold.

On a positive note with the increase in battery production it should become much more economically viable to be store energy generated by solar panels.
 
Doobedoo said:
Excuse the silly questions but I don’t have a ev so have never used a charger. So how much does it cost to fill the battery up?
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Depends entirely on the company operating the charger. Some, like Ecotricty currently charge (I believe) 30p/kWh. They used to have lower rates but had a £1.50 connection charge. They recently dropped the connection charge and upped the rate. Some like Polar have a monthly subscription service, around £7, which allows access to their network whilst some of their charge posts are also available to use without the subscription. Again, you'd pay the current rate per kWh.

Tesla, if you don't have free supercharging, currently charge 24p kWh.

If home charging, it's whatever you pay per kWh for your electricity. Mine is currently 12.5p.
 
satchef1 said:
See the previous page: tax equates to around 9p per mile on a 40mpg petrol car (so 6p per mile on an efficient Diesel).

Take the average, 7.5p per mile, then find a way to apply it to EVs (per mile road pricing?). Problem solved. The running cost of cars doesn't change greatly, the tax take doesn't change greatly. But the vehicles are cleaner.

Not much changes on this front either then.
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That’s true.
 
satchef1 said:
And if we're trending toward 250-300 mile range EVs, then it seems likely that most people won't need to use them more than once or twice a year.
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You'd not think it the way some people slate EV's :D

[sarcasm]With only 250-300 miles on tap "most" people need super fast charging and so would need these chargers on an almost daily basis :D[/sarcasm]
 
Desmo said:
Depends entirely on the company operating the charger. Some, like Ecotricty currently charge (I believe) 30p/kWh. They used to have lower rates but had a £1.50 connection charge. They recently dropped the connection charge and upped the rate. Some like Polar have a monthly subscription service, around £7, which allows access to their network whilst some of their charge posts are also available to use without the subscription. Again, you'd pay the current rate per kWh.

Tesla, if you don't have free supercharging, currently charge 24p kWh.

If home charging, it's whatever you pay per kWh for your electricity. Mine is currently 12.5p.
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So as it stands companies are profiting from the supply of electricity for the purpose of charging electric vehicles.

This was one of the things I was trying to understand. How companies could profit from the increase in popularity of ev’s and decrease in petrol production going forward.
 
Doobedoo said:
So as it stands companies are profiting from the supply of electricity for the purpose of charging electric vehicles.

This was one of the things I was trying to understand. How companies could profit from the increase in popularity of ev’s and decrease in petrol production going forward.
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Petrol and diesel sales fall, but sales of electricity rise. The cost per mile, before tax, isn't drastically different, though the margin on electricity generation is lower than oil.

The "oil companies" are quite diversified these days. BP even changed their name to "Beyond Petrolium". They're very much prepared to capitalise on that shift. Renewables has been a strong focus. Maybe because they're bothered about the environment. Or maybe because they can see an opportunity to use the falling cost of renewables to grow their margins in the power generation sector. Probably the latter.
 
Desmo said:
You'd not think it the way some people slate EV's :D

[sarcasm]With only 250-300 miles on tap "most" people need super fast charging and so would need these chargers on an almost daily basis :D[/sarcasm]
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You also have to understand that things have evolved in recent years ev’s Initially weren’t all that but now they are starting to make sense. The problem is for a whole load of people including me for example is they are still out of reach. It would take a long time for it to be cost effective for me to ditch my car in favour of an ev.

I would have a Tesla in a heartbeat but will never spend that sort of money on a car.
 
satchef1 said:
Petrol and diesel sales fall, but sales of electricity rise.

The "oil companies" are quite diversified these days. BP even changed their name to "Beyond Petrolium". They're very much prepared to capitalise on that shift. Renewables has been a strong focus. Maybe because they're bothered about the environment. Or maybe because they can see a chunky profit in the low (and falling) cost of renewables generation. Probably the latter, dressed up as the former for PR purposes.
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Yes and hydrogen will also make up part of that I’m sure.
 
Desmo said:
You'd not think it the way some people slate EV's :D

[sarcasm]With only 250-300 miles on tap "most" people need super fast charging and so would need these chargers on an almost daily basis :D[/sarcasm]
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To be fair, I think that's a genuine desire for a refuelling method that follows current paradigms. But if the cost of electricity at home is 12p to 15p per kWh, and the cost on a 350kW rapid is 60p per kWh, most will soon change their mind and accept that plugging in at night isn't such a big hassle after all.
 
satchef1 said:
Petrol and diesel sales fall, but sales of electricity rise. The cost per mile, before tax, isn't drastically different, though the margin on electricity generation is lower than oil.

The "oil companies" are quite diversified these days. BP even changed their name to "Beyond Petrolium". They're very much prepared to capitalise on that shift. Renewables has been a strong focus. Maybe because they're bothered about the environment. Or maybe because they can see an opportunity to use the falling cost of renewables to grow their margins in the power generation sector. Probably the latter.
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The oil companies have to change or they won't survive. Even Saudi Arabia is building solar farms now. The fact they are changing direction means the end of oil is nigh, but not for a long time yet.
 
Nasher said:
The oil companies have to change or they won't survive. Even Saudi Arabia is building solar farms now. The fact they are changing direction means the end of oil is nigh, but not for a long time yet.
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They would be stupid not too given their abundance of solar power. They could power the whole country off solar alone.
 
Doobedoo said:
The problem is for a whole load of people including me for example is they are still out of reach. It would take a long time for it to be cost effective for me to ditch my car in favour of an ev.
I would have a Tesla in a heartbeat but will never spend that sort of money on a car.
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Yeah, I totally get that. I feel veery lucky that I'm able to be a relatively early adopter. I certainly never want to go back to an ICE car if I can help it.

satchef1 said:
most will soon change their mind and accept that plugging in at night isn't such a big hassle after all.
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Plugging in is never really a hassle....it just becomes second nature. And best of all, you always leave home with as much "fuel" as you wanted. Had to fill the wife's car up at a petrol station the other night in the wind and rain and then go in to queue and pay. I DON'T miss that.
 
The other good thing with EV's in general is that they become more eco-friendly as time goes on. When you buy an ICE car it emits the same emissions now as it did when it rolled off the production line. With an EV it gets better as more and more power comes from renewable energy. In 20 years time my current car will more than likely be MORE eco friendly than it is now, purely down to more renewable power being produced.
 
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