Tesla Model X P100D

Desmo said:
The other good thing with EV's in general is that they become more eco-friendly as time goes on. When you buy an ICE car it emits the same emissions now as it did when it rolled off the production line. With an EV it gets better as more and more power comes from renewable energy. In 20 years time my current car will more than likely be MORE eco friendly than it is now, purely down to more renewable power being produced.
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By 20 years you'll likely need to replace the batteries which will wipe out a lot of that greenness. Also costing more than the value of the car.
 
Joe T said:
Batteries in cars are treated very differently from the ones in your iphone, for example.
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so differently. ?
coming from mobile industry - the phone may not have active cooling but with reduced volume/surface area net result maybe similar,
equally management of over/under charging can be just as controlled,
along with throttling mechanism(+capacitors) for both to limit large current discharges too.

[
About battery liefspan / green credentials - : 'required' lifespan :

if they have not been created with a carbon symptahtic envrionment, the need to be driven a few years to offset the battery manufacture toll.
For perspective, the average German car owner could drive a gas-guzzling vehicle for three and a half years, or more than 50,000 kilometers, before a Nissan Leaf with a 30 kWh battery would beat it on carbon-dioxide emissions in a coal-heavy country, Berylls estimates show.
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but tesla giga factories are solar powered ?


energy for builiding the electric car / batteries versus versus ice would be interesting to know ... google not too friendly
but seems batteries are not much (energy) cheaper than ICE
To get your initial question out of the way fast, it takes about 73
Giga-Joules of energy to manufacture a vehicle. This is less than 10
percent of the total lifecycle energy consumption of a vehicle.

Manufacturing energy analysis of lithium ion battery pack for electric vehicles
Lithium ion batteries (LIB) are widely used to power electric vehicles. Here we report a comprehensive manufacturing energy analysis of the popular LMO-graphite LIB pack used on Nissan Leaf and Chevrolet Volt. A 24 kWh battery pack with 192 prismatic cells is analysed at each manufacturing process from mixing, coating, calendaring, notching till final cutting and assembly, with data collected and modelled from real industrial processes. It is found that 29.9 GJ of energy is embedded in the battery materials, 58.7 GJ energy consumed in the battery cell production, and 0.3 GJ energy for the final battery pack assembly.
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]
 
Disposal is largely theoretical still, as there isn't a significant supply of dead batteries. There's talk of reuse in other applications, or recycling, but the economic viability of those solutions can't be tested in the real world until there's more dead EVs around. It could easily be a decade or more before we understand the end-of-life impact of EVs.
 
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jpaul said:
so differently. ?
coming from mobile industry - the phone may not have active cooling but with reduced volume/surface area net result maybe similar,
equally management of over/under charging can be just as controlled,
along with throttling mechanism(+capacitors) for both to limit large current discharges too.

[
About battery liefspan / green credentials - : 'required' lifespan :




]
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Very differently. A mobile phone is hugely space constrained, so you can charge it to its full capacity there’s no reserved amounts at the top or bottom of charge. A car will block the bottom and top 10% or so and you can never use this area.

No heating or cooling. If your phone is below freezing it’ll still charge, a car won’t. Tesla’s in very cold climates will sit and warm the battery before charging. Charging below sub zero causes damage to the battery. Fast charging a phone will warm it up. If the outside shell is warm the battery will be hotter. You can leave a phone in the sun and it can’t protect itself etc. A car will cool the battery if it gets too warm even if it’s parked up and switched off.

They’ll also have different chemistry with a focus on capacity rather than longevity.

There’s no battery life concern when they cost £20 to swap in a phone. And planned obsolescence is something phone manufacturers are more keen to encourage.
 
satchef1 said:
Disposal is largely theoretical still, as there isn't a significant supply of dead batteries. There's talk of reuse in other applications, or recycling, but the economic viability of those solutions can't be tested in the real world until there's more dead EVs around. It could easily be a decade or more before we understand the end-of-life impact of EVs.
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Is ok, they have a tub at the tip for spent batteries:D. On the subject of road tax, i reckon i'm paying around £1500 a year just in duty (e92 M3). So i could see there being some sort of 'VED' for all EV cars of a grand a year. My only issue is that the performance i'm sure to is the equivalent of a P90D (or a model 3 performance). Neither of which will be as cheap to buy as a performance car (although could be in several years time).
 
Can't see them just dumping "car tax" on BEVs. Tax is as much about influencing the behaviour of individuals and businesses as it is about raising revenue. The government will find some new undesirable behaviour to target. Congestion seems a likely candidate. Maybe "pay per mile" taxation, with higher rates for rush hour, town centres, and city centres?
 
More likely they will dump it all on road tax and hike it massively for EVs the next time they revamp it. They are just waiting for more people to buy them before they pounce.

Pay-per-mile and any form of GPS tracking is to easily cheatable/hackable.
 
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