Tesla

As in write the tax off as a commercial vehicle? I doubt it’s that common, much like it’s not that common in the UK, where you can do the same. I could be wrong though.

Unfortunately they aren’t cheap. You can get an absolute boggo (builders) base spec for around ~£20k but that’ll have non electric windows and no air con. The kind of one people will buy for a family vehicle starts at around £30k and goes up to around £60k if you want the fully loaded ones with leather, Climate, moon roofs, Bose speakers etc.

Have a browse on the US ford site.

https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/2018/?gnav=header-all-vehicles

The kind of vehicle someone buying for non work/fleet use is going to be the Lariat and up, with 4x4 and anything but the 3.3 engine. Starting price is probably closer to £35k with that.

(Remember those prices don’t include sales tax/VAT, which is generally around 10-15%).
 
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Isn't that like saying people buy Range Rovers and Land Rovers (and other cars in that category) in the UK to go off-road driving? The reality of the matter is that the majority have never been off tarmac ever and their owners never plan to do so.
 
That’s kinda the point, to an extent anyway. How many Land/RangeRovers would they sell if they all had gutless engines with no ability to go off road?

Many people buy this kind of thing because they feel like they may want to use it, even if they don’t actually do so.

That said, from my own local perception I don’t think it’s quite as clear cut as with the UK off roader argument. I gave my use cases earlier but I know about a dozen people with pickups (from various walks of life and neighbours) and most buy them to use for their intended purpose, at least some of the time. Whether that’s towing a 30ft trailer, or 20 ft boat, going camping up dirt roads a couple of times a year, moving materials around etc.

Perhaps that’s just where I live. I live in a city of a million people but am probably 20 minutes from a dirt road and an hour or so from hundreds of km of dirt and off road trails used by bikes, quads etc. It would be interesting to get someone else’s take that lives in a different area of NA, perhaps @timmeh could have some input?

As I said earlier a 300 mile range would probably be fine for a fair few people, how many though I don’t know. Even then because of the weight and size of the things it’s likely you’re going to need a 100+kWh battery to get anywhere near that sort of range.

You can actually option at purchase between a “standard” and “extended” range tank (87l or 135l tank) which will give you 400 or 600 miles. How many of each are sold i dont know. I just can’t see Tesla coming out with something that doesn’t at least match the standard range.

Edit: I’m not saying you “need” a pickup for those hinge, especially the dirt roads. But they’re justification for buying one. Just as “it snows, I need 4x4”.
 
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Amp34 said:
As in write the tax off as a commercial vehicle? I doubt it’s that common, much like it’s not that common in the UK, where you can do the same. I could be wrong though.

Unfortunately they aren’t cheap. You can get an absolute boggo (builders) base spec for around ~£20k but that’ll have non electric windows and no air con. The kind of one people will buy for a family vehicle starts at around £30k and goes up to around £60k if you want the fully loaded ones with leather, Climate, moon roofs, Bose speakers etc.

Have a browse on the US ford site.

https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/2018/?gnav=header-all-vehicles

The kind of vehicle someone buying for non work/fleet use is going to be the Lariat and up, with 4x4 and anything but the 3.3 engine. Starting price is probably closer to £35k with that.

(Remember those prices don’t include sales tax/VAT, which is generally around 10-15%).
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https://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/here-s-why-america-is-so-obsessed-with-the-pickup-truck

It seems originally pickups had the tax breaks until very recently but i guess people loved them so much they kept on buying them.
 
adam cool dude said:
I always thought people bought pickup trucks in the US for tax reasons, they are super cheap and come with reasonably powerful powerplants.
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Have you looked at the price of pickup trucks? They are definitely not 'super cheap'. A bog standard F-150 Supercrew starts at $33k and then if you start getting into your Lariats, King Ranches, Limiteds, Raptors, etc you can be starting at $50k+ before you know it. I specced up a Raptor before getting my car and it came out at $65k.

Amp34 said:
That’s kinda the point, to an extent anyway. How many Land/RangeRovers would they sell if they all had gutless engines with no ability to go off road?

Many people buy this kind of thing because they feel like they may want to use it, even if they don’t actually do so.

That said, from my own local perception I don’t think it’s quite as clear cut as with the UK off roader argument. I gave my use cases earlier but I know about a dozen people with pickups (from various walks of life and neighbours) and most buy them to use for their intended purpose, at least some of the time. Whether that’s towing a 30ft trailer, or 20 ft boat, going camping up dirt roads a couple of times a year, moving materials around etc.

Perhaps that’s just where I live. I live in a city of a million people but am probably 20 minutes from a dirt road and an hour or so from hundreds of km of dirt and off road trails used by bikes, quads etc. It would be interesting to get someone else’s take that lives in a different area of NA, perhaps @timmeh could have some input?

As I said earlier a 300 mile range would probably be fine for a fair few people, how many though I don’t know. Even then because of the weight and size of the things it’s likely you’re going to need a 100+kWh battery to get anywhere near that sort of range.

You can actually option at purchase between a “standard” and “extended” range tank (87l or 135l tank) which will give you 400 or 600 miles. How many of each are sold i dont know. I just can’t see Tesla coming out with something that doesn’t at least match the standard range.

Edit: I’m not saying you “need” a pickup for those hinge, especially the dirt roads. But they’re justification for buying one. Just as “it snows, I need 4x4”.
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People around here seem to buy pickup trucks like people in UK would have an estate, definitely not similar to people buying Land/Range Rovers. A lot of people around here tend to have quad bikes or those 4 seater off-road buggy things, boats, etc so need a truck to tow them around. They're just handy things to have more than anything.
 
timmeh said:
Have you looked at the price of pickup trucks? They are definitely not 'super cheap'. A bog standard F-150 Supercrew starts at $33k and then if you start getting into your Lariats, King Ranches, Limiteds, Raptors, etc you can be starting at $50k+ before you know it. I specced up a Raptor before getting my car and it came out at $65k.



People around here seem to buy pickup trucks like people in UK would have an estate, definitely not similar to people buying Land/Range Rovers. A lot of people around here tend to have quad bikes or those 4 seater off-road buggy things, boats, etc so need a truck to tow them around. They're just handy things to have more than anything.
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Different countries just have different tastes. We love the hatchback where as continental Europe prefers the Saloon. The Toyota Camry sells 400-500k a year in the US. Isn't even available in the EU as no one would buy it because of perceived German build quality.
 
With 200KWh of batteries onboard & little from the press release on any specific advancements in battery technology, i'm guessing the overall weight will be 2000kg+ for the roadster.
Pretty cool that they're able to raise the funds to do all this stuff, but the whiff of the 'cult of Elon' is strong. I don't think the suggested sub-2s 0-60 stacks up, even with 1MW+ output.
 
Tom_ed1987 said:
With 200KWh of batteries onboard & little from the press release on any specific advancements in battery technology, i'm guessing the overall weight will be 2000kg+ for the roadster.
Pretty cool that they're able to raise the funds to do all this stuff, but the whiff of the 'cult of Elon' is strong. I don't think the suggested sub-2s 0-60 stacks up, even with 1MW+ output.
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Hmm, a roadster that weighs more than my 735i, that’s going to need some pretty trick suspension if it’s going to handle like you’d expect a roadster to do....
 
Simon said:
Battery is estimated to be 800kg, no mention of tyres fitted either
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The tyres fitted on the model shown were Michelin Cup 2's.
The problem with the battery will be managing heat & cooling, the P100Ds with a 210KWh battery often go into 'limp' mode due to over heating.

Scania said:
Hmm, a roadster that weighs more than my 735i, that’s going to need some pretty trick suspension if it’s going to handle like you’d expect a roadster to do....
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Given the massive battery weight, I think handling is going to be the one area where the Roadster falls short.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
https://electrek.co/2017/11/20/teslas-next-gen-roadster-technical-analysis/

This article discusses quite a lot of these points like weight and tyres. Its a very pro Tesla source but the estimates don't look too far fetched.
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10,000Nm of torque is basically unheard of in anything with wheels.
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That number tells us nothing as we don't know how much power the car makes. You can manipulate wheel torque to whatever number you like by tweaking the gearing, it doesn't mean the car will be fast ....for sure though this car will be quick but we need to know the HP to put that number into context !! :)

Seeing that number just reminds me of the contrast ratio numbers TV manufacturers used to put out :P
 
SDK^ said:
The tyres fitted on the model shown were Michelin Cup 2's.
The problem with the battery will be managing heat & cooling, the P100Ds with a 210KWh battery often go into 'limp' mode due to over heating.


Given the massive battery weight, I think handling is going to be the one area where the Roadster falls short.
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p100d dosn't have a 210kw battery.
and that is almost certainly the reason the roadster has so much battery, rather than for the distance. its to keep the heat down.
the handling is the big question, although they are doing wheel steering using the motors to do torque vectoring and as such it might be surprisingly good. they did have a course set up at the event and apparently, the handling was pretty good, but i don't know what experience these guys had with other cars to compare.
 
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Glaucus said:
p100d dosn't have a 210kw battery.
and that is almost certainly the reason the roadster has so much battery, rather than for the distance. its to keep the heat down.
the handling is the big question, although they are doing wheel steering using the motors to do torque vectoring and as such it might be surprisingly good. they did have a course set up at the event and apparently, the handling was pretty good, but i don't know what experience these guys had with other cars to compare.
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It is almost certainly for power output than anything else, each cell with have a maximum sustainable output. You can't draw enough power needed to do 1.9 second 0-60 from a smaller pack without causing degradation to it very quickly. You are going to be talking well over 1000 hp for this and more likely in the 1200 range. For reference the the P100D can deliver 770hp.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
It is almost certainly for power output than anything else, each cell with have a maximum sustainable output. You can't draw enough power needed to do 1.9 second 0-60 from a smaller pack without causing degradation to it very quickly. You are going to be talking well over 1000 hp for this and more likely in the 1200 range. For reference the the P100D can deliver 770hp.
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Some are reconing 1300 bhp equivalent. Which if true is insane.
 
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