Tesla

b0rn2sk8 said:
If it was new tech, they would be bragging it was the first solid state car coming to market. The S/X pack also only uses the space between the wheels, they could utilise the space in the front, back and potentially double stack them under the rear seats etc. If the car has the potential to charge in 1 min they would have said but they didn't. It will just use the existing super charger network which is why we saw nothing on that front, a 200kWh car is going to take a very long time to charge.


Folding roof? Not sure on that, certainly removable but I can't see how it would fold, the rear looks like 1 piece.
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The model 3 can actually charge at 220kw. So the roadster with almost 3 times the size could use a future V3 or maybe just the mega chargers.
 
Ultra E is 350kW however it’s cooling that energy dump that is the problem as the cooling system is only ever automotive sized and the bigger the pack the more heat to manage.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
They are already ahead of themselves declaring worlds fastest production car...

Front and back? Probably got motors in there kid.
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Thanks for that, you really make your point by resorting to insults....

Tesla are a tech company, if this was using never before used tech in a production car, they would be milking it as much as they can. Just like they spent a huge amount of time talking about the drag coefficient of the truck. A concept not many people actually understand what it means.

Have you actually looked at how the S/X/3 is made? The motors basically sit on the axle and take hardly any space.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Thanks for that, you really make your point by resorting to insults....

Tesla are a tech company, if this was using never before used tech in a production car, they would be milking it as much as they can. Just like they spent a huge amount of time talking about the drag coefficient of the truck. A concept not many people actually understand what it means.

Have you actually looked at how the S/X/3 is made? The motors basically sit on the axle and take hardly any space.
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Didn’t intend an insult just a term. Apologies

That’s what’s in the front in the crumply bit though, not cells. The motors are pretty big, particularly the twin setup on the rear and preclude any sort of batteries to offer double the energy in a shorter wheelbase.

Drag coefficient is more of a mainstream term than you probably think.

I have extensively looked at the full Tesla range and various other EV drivelines.
 
Amp34 said:
Even if that person is more likely to crash?

Edit: Loblaws, the largest canadan Supermarket has preordered 25 semis, which is apparently around 10% of their fleet.

So maybe those trips to Murmansk will be fine after all. ;)
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and 10 of the 15 Walmart ones are heading to Canada, there's also a few other companies have announced pre orders, I wonder if Tesla will announce figures in a few weeks, it would be interesting.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Just like they spent a huge amount of time talking about the drag coefficient of the truck. A concept not many people actually understand what it means.
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Do you know what it means ? It’s rather pointless on its own as frontal area is needed before you can work out drag.
 
Simon said:
Do you know what it means ? It’s rather pointless on its own as frontal area is needed before you can work out drag.
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A lot of outlets were running with that fact stating that the truck was more aerodynamic than a Chiron and the likes. So, I did some back-of-notepad calculations:

Chiron Cd: 0.38
Truck: 0.36
Chiron frontal area: 2.05m2 (est.)
Truck: 9.00m2 (est.)
Chiron drag area (CdA): 0.779m2
Truck drag area: 3.240m2

Truck 316% less aerodynamically efficient.

Did caveat that with the fact that the above was extremely quick and dirty - and I'm no expert in that field - but it hasn't been countered yet.
 
It seems Tesla also “announced” their “pickup truck” at the event as well. Well sort of.

A very weird concept that seems to be based on the Semi platform and way bigger than a normal pickup. Presumably the concept is more in line with transport lorries for hauling gravel and materials than a consumer pickup.

https://www.google.ca/amp/bgr.com/2017/11/17/tesla-pickup-truck-renderings-elon-musk/amp/

Hopefully they do announce a proper pickup in the next year or two as I love the idea of one. As yet none of the major manufacturers are anywhere near announcing one themselves. Let’s just hope it doesn’t look like their concept... :/

There’s probably a lot of fairly unique chllenges involved as well. It would need to stay in the $40-80k range to really be competitive, yet battery wise it would probably need something akin to the 200kw battery pack of the roadster to be practical (300 miles+ with 3.5t GVW/1t payload and/or 4t+ towing capacity).

That said they could probably start with a more urban version and still get a decent amount of sales.
 
A lot of people do. Whether it’s for work (I.e construction) or recreation - everything from campers on the back to moving snowmobiles, motorbikes and other “toys” around.

At the same time you’re right, most people rarely need all the ability they provide. The weight of a family of four and four bikes isn’t exactly high for example.

Not having that ability makes it a less practical vehicle for those times it is needed however. From personal experience ours is driven around largely empty most of the time, but I’ve been at the legal maximum a fair few times, with the 3.5t GVW something we are having to work around for future plans (And I don’t use it for work).

And TBH there’s a lot of machismo for some people regarding pickups. The main competition over the last decade has been load and towing capacity. The benefit is a byproduct of decent acceleration. (TBH those sort of people would probably love the concept version, if they’re interested in moving away from their V8 diesels).

If Tesla could produce a pickup that had a range of 300 miles with a normal load in (i.e a few people and family stuff) but able to carry and tow for a couple of hundred if required then it would probably be fine for a lot of people. Stick a couple of motors in for 400hp and 500 ft/lb of torque and it would be a good option for most. Tesla’s electric motors are almost made for this sort of usage.

(Current “consumer” pickups are up to around 350-400hp and 400-500 ft/lb with a 600 mile range for comparison, and around $30-70k US).

The market itself is huge. Pickups have been the top selling vehicles in the US and Canada for decades with a much larger market than performance saloons and the biggest profit margin for the likes of Ford, GM etc.

Edit: That said the “compromise” vehicle mentioned above would probably mean I wouldnt be interest in it. Too short a range for what we’d use it for. And I don’t think I’m unique in that, which is perhaps one of the reasons they haven’t announced anything. Ideally it would want 500 miles of range and at a guess the battery cost would be too high.
 
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Moses said:
Your last part is the thing - how many people need a pickup that's actually used for hard graft? I get the impression massive cars in America is a bit like people here having massive 4x4s... they like the massive vehicles, but don't use them for their 'proper purpose'.
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Yeah my friends in Canada both have huge crew cab truck things. The bonnet must be around my chin level and you see them fitted with a fifth wheel. They must be a good 4 tonnes.

He is a police officer and she is a bank manager.
 
Currently in Norway....seems like every other car is a Tesla, been seeing the SUVs around as well. No Model 3s yet...but I didn't expect there to be either!

Its made my want for one even more :eek: with the Portugal infrastructure improving a lot and free charging at work...I really think it will be good to get a Model 3 when they're production issues are sorted and its not a 2 year waiting list.
 
Moses said:
Yeah, I'm not saying no one does, I just mean that the owners of pickups can be broken down into two large categories... so you could produce a lifestyle pickup and get lots of sales, or a hardcore one and get a decent number of sales... or both off a standard frame.
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Even the lifestyle pickups will still need have a decent range though. They’re the main family vehicle for most, which means they’re the vehicle used when they go camping, travelling across country to see family etc. Camping here can easily involve travelling a couple of hundred miles and then staying somewhere without electricity 50 miles from the nearest plug down a dirt road. That’s not the “hardcore” with snowmobiles and fifth wheels (caravans) but normal family’s.

The additional load and tow ability doesn’t really affect the vehicle when it’s not loaded up or towing. So to sell to the lifestyle pickup owner you probably still need a 500 mile range, which for a 2.5ton (unloaded) car with poor aerodynamics is going to involve a lot of batteries.

Tesla have shown they don’t go in half cocked as well, so it’s unlikely they’d release a Pickup that didn’t go blow for blow with ICE versions. Honestly I think it’s just not economically viable with the price of batteries currently.

That said, I’d love to be proved wrong!

There’s lots of S and Xs around here too. I’m still interested in getting a 3, but really want something with AWD and a bit more ground clearance for travelling in the mountains in winter, such as the Model Y. Unfortunately at this rate it’ll probably be available some time in 2025, way after much of the competition. We may well end up with an electric Volvo instead. :p
 
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Moses said:
It depends what proportion do stuff like camping in that fashion. Obviously if you’re going places without electricity then electric vehicles aren’t the thing to use. If I was someone who wanted to go camping in the woods every so often, a long way from places I can charge, I’d just hire an ICE car. But anyway, they won’t be suitable for those in the relative wilderness, but for those in/near cities etc, they’d be fine. With 80+% of people living in urban areas in the US and Canada, they’d still be pitching at a lot of people who don’t need huge range.
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The problem with that assumption is you're missing a vital piece of the puzzle. People buy trucks to fit into their lifestyle, that lifestyle is one where they go camping, take stuff with them, drive long distances, go to places that "need" 4x4. It may not happen very often (a couple of times a year) but they will use it for that. I.e. a person buying a truck is more likely to be doing that than the general population.

Having to hire a vehicle for those times you justified buying the pickup for in the first place is a bit counterintuitive. :p

And those places don't have fuel either, but they're fine to go to because a vehicle has plenty of range. They're be fine with an electric vehicle with the same range. Having one with a 200-300 mile range probably would't be suitable for most.

Remember, driving long distances in North America is pretty common. People drive thousands of miles to see family at christmas. Personally we just did 250 miles today to go skiing, which we do a couple of dozen times a year.
 
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