*** The 2019 Gym Rats Thread ***

danlightbulb said:
Take today as an example of why i feel I need milk (and other 'unhealthy' snacks too) to get me up to the calorie target I have.

Today I have eaten the following 'solid' food:

B - 2 boiled eggs
L - Tortila wrap with jerk chicken and mixed salad filling + bag of ready salted crisps
5pm - 240g chicken breast + 40g white rice + portion brocoli
D - 200g rump steak + 2 eggs + 1 tin spagetti hoops

All this comes to ONLY 1550 calories.

I had a pint of whole milk with my breakfast (because its quick and easy in the morning), and one with my dinner. That's another easy 730 calories. I could have another if I needed it.
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I can't be bothered to read all your previous posts so apologies in advance but from this post it seems that you're complaining you aren't getting enough calories in from food and so you're having to resort to milk? Try eating properly then! My breakfast is almost as many calories as your 4 "meals"!
 
Yeah I've just upped my breakfast to 3 eggs instead of 2 because why not? Loads of protein. It also includes a turkey steak and a piece of rye bread. The only reason I haven't put like 6 eggs in is that I can't currently afford to buy an infinite number of eggs.

Just wanted to point out that I'm also trying to up my own protein intake to somewhere between 200-250 g per day. I'm realising that I'll only be able to achieve it with protein shakes and peanut butter.

In about 2 weeks (when I can order a shedload of food shopping) I'll be shifting what I eat massively to end up protein heavy as I'm eating way too many carbs at the moment - probably 50%.
 
@Skillmister thats great for you, i just cant eat that much in one sitting, especialy at breakfast and if trying to keep the fat down. And as i go through the day eating more than usual my desire for food goes down and down. I could easily have skipped evening meal last night - just wasnt hungry at all - it was only the steak and eggs that made me desire something.

Im going for a meal out tonight (indian), so will get much more than 1500 from real food today, but its because its less 'clean'.

What does your 1500 calorie breakfast consist of please?
 
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danlightbulb said:
I had a pint of whole milk with my breakfast (because its quick and easy in the morning)
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Sorry you mean AS your breakfast right?

We went through this before, I showed you a complete breakdown of a day that gave you 2.2k cals in 3 meals, that didn't include protein shakes

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/32771784/

That was 3 meals, not including protein shakes, no pints of milk, no boiled eggs etc.

You are also completely neglecting good fats. A great source of calories.

Also still avoiding protein shakes...yeah you may get the same amount of protein from a pint of milk, but your also drinking a pint of milk, and that will just go through you in no time. You can take in as much protein from a shake with just 150ml of water.

Then there's post workout fast carb protein shakes as well, throw in 25g of dextrose and you're adding another 100 calories.

In other words, stop asking the same question and not changing what your doing. Eat better and smarter, not more...
 
danlightbulb said:
What does your 1500 calorie breakfast consist of please?
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I did say "almost" as its approx 1100-1200.

Banana & Coffee pre workout then afterwards:

110g oats (I don't weigh anything but when I have done it's roughly these amounts)
200ml blue milk/almond milk
Few dollops of Skyr yoghurt
15g chia seeds
30g linseed
Scoop of whey
Couple of tablespoons honey
100g frozen berries

Roughly 120g carbs, 30g fat, 65g protein



You don't need to be aiming for anywhere near 250g protein.
 
Skillmister said:
I didn't realise you had posted that rather than @danlightbulb my bad

Someone who "hasn't even started proper training yet" doesn't need to get 250g protein. Especially not somehow who seems to be on a budget...
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Hah fair enough! Yeah I'm going for as much help as I can get here, doing starting strength etc. I may as well follow their advice.

A good, budget, protein source is peanut butter. I know our lightbulb is adverse to nuts though...
 
dirtychinchilla said:
Could be excessive, but it's what's advocated by the Barbell Logic guys who have decades of experience...
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Science is not particularly conclusive on this issue and it's an absolute pig to isolate as a testable component of human biochemistry and physiology, so anybody that says "it's X or Y" with any certainty is probably talking out their proverbial.

The closest science can get is anaylsis via "meta" studies, and even those provide a range (something between 1-2g/kgbw); that's a difference of 100% between the two numbers and a potential doubling (or halving) of somebody's shopping bill.
 
Syla5 said:
In other words, stop asking the same question and not changing what your doing. Eat better and smarter, not more...
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Sorry its just i struggle to get to grips with food as ive tried to explain. Its probably hard to understand if youre a normal eater.

I dont see what the difference is between just drinking a pint of milk and using less milk along with other things in your breakfast example.

I am aiming for 1g protein per lb bodyweight which gives me a target of about 170g. Why does it matter if i get 30g from a protein shake (which is liquid calories) or a pint of milk (which is liquid calories)?

170g protein is 680 calories. That leaves, in my 3k example (i know that figure is disputed), 2320 to find from carbs and fats.

@Skillmister is your breakfast is 1100 cals then im going to assume your target for the day is much higher than 3k? I dont feel a need to eat that big a breakfast and i dont care much for the things youve listed. Youve criticised my milk but the breakfast youve listed is still quite liquidy with the milk, yogurt, coffee.
 
mrthingyx said:
Science is not particularly conclusive on this issue and it's an absolute pig to isolate as a testable component of human biochemistry and physiology, so anybody that says "it's X or Y" with any certainty is probably talking out their proverbial.

The closest science can get is anaylsis via "meta" studies, and even those provide a range (something between 1-2g/kgbw); that's a difference of 100% between the two numbers and a potential doubling (or halving) of somebody's shopping bill.
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That's a substantial difference. A lot of people would also say 1 g per 1 lb, which would put me near 200 g of protein. It won't do any harm anyway.
 
Trying to keep fats down and struggling... not surprised if you are guzzling as much whole milk as you are.

I think your nutrition priorities are misguided dan, you are focusing on the overall daily total too much, trying to make up for your lack of numbers with high sugar, high fat foods but are avoiding good fats and easy options to rack up protein without consuming tons of saturated fats. You're also avoiding good foods that would contribute to your total without the extra crap.

As much as a calorie is a calorie in weight loss/gain, different nutrients have different effect on health and energy levels. Could it be your choice in sugary/fatty foods which caused dips in energy levels when you dropped calories the first time round?

If i ate a lot of my calories in crap sugar and lifted in a deficit, i bet my main source of fuel would be a mixture of amino acids from muscle mass and and a bit of glycogen which would be refilled by sugar with leftover going to fat. Even though I'm running a deficit my body would decide that I am better of supporting more fat and less muscle than what I intend. It can happen the other way in a surplus where poor eating results in limited muscle growth and excess fat even though you are hitting daily protein.

The body is a complex machine and is just trying to find a balance constantly. You are aiming to create the conditions for that balance to favour aesthetic or strength.

As much as a fat is a fat or a sugar is a carb - some people seem to react differently to different kinds and amounts and the body finds it easier to use some fats/carbs over others. I think your worst enemy is thinking you can achieve everything eating the way you always have being rather picky.
 
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Youre right i am focussed on the total and i understand what you are saying but im struggling to see how I can ditch the milk and sugary snacks and get anywhere near my target. I just cant eat that much rice chicken and veg.

If you are saying i'll still gain weight and progress on the bar by eating 2300 cleaner calories then in that case i can cut out the more unhealthy things out. Im just not convinced ill gain weight on that, in fact id bet I wont.
 
danlightbulb said:
Sorry its just i struggle to get to grips with food as ive tried to explain. Its probably hard to understand if youre a normal eater.

I dont see what the difference is between just drinking a pint of milk and using less milk along with other things in your breakfast example.
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From the things you have said you eat, its hard to believe you really do struggle with food, over and above wanting to actually put in the effort to find things that work for you. You've made it clear that you use milk because its an easy and quick option, and the same for chocolate bars. You seem to struggle with getting to grips with food because you want it to be as easy as possible. Like I said, 5 minutes is all you need for a well rounded macro breakfast.

There is no substance to the drinking over half a litre of milk as "breakfast". Drinking 570ml of milk is harder for your body to process and digest then 150ml water with whey protein in. It will potentially lead to more waste, and in turn mean that your not getting the desired calorie counts from supplementing foods with liquids.

What is your macro breakdown? You say your hitting roughly 50% carbs, but then that means you are neglecting either the fats or proteins, and that's not a sensible approach to take.

Why are you avoiding fats? Its old news that fats are bad....they aren't, at least the right fats aren't.

Personally I aim for a 35%/35%/30% Proteins / Carbs / Fats. Age is a factor, the older you are as well the more you will want to rely on Proteins and Fats for you calorie targets.

All this has been said before.

danlightbulb said:
Youre right i am focussed on the total and i understand what you are saying but im struggling to see how I can ditch the milk and sugary snacks and get anywhere near my target. I just cant eat that much rice chicken and veg.

If you are saying i'll still gain weight and progress on the bar by eating 2300 cleaner calories then in that case i can cut out the more unhealthy things out. Im just not convinced ill gain weight on that, in fact id bet I wont.
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No one has said this number for you. Many have said that 3.2k sounds very high for you.... also those who have said this have also been through it and tried it, you haven't but aren't convinced. Try it, keep it consistent , then come back and say "its not working" or "its working". Stop avoiding doing...
 
danlightbulb said:
@Skillmister is your breakfast is 1100 cals then im going to assume your target for the day is much higher than 3k? I dont feel a need to eat that big a breakfast and i dont care much for the things youve listed. Youve criticised my milk but the breakfast youve listed is still quite liquidy with the milk, yogurt, coffee.
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Yes I'm eating an average of 3500 a day depending on cardio.

2 pints of milk =/= less than half a pint of milk and a couple of spoons of yoghurt. And where does coffee come into this? If you're concerned about my liquid intake don't worry its only an espresso :p

You seem like you're looking to be spoon fed (information, not literally) rather than applying other people's input to your personal situation and goals. But even then you aren't listening so not sure what more can be done.
 
I'll be the first to suggest my posts/advice are taken with a pinch of salt. My diet is no where near as structured as most of the frequent posters in here and I've only recently started logging my food again.

For instance yesterday I ate approx 2800 calories "clean" as I wasn't feeling like chowing down. But A few days ago I ate 4200+ which included 900 calories worth of rhubarb crumble and 2 m&s egg custards (220 each).. I know I can get away with this though and I still hit my desired macros, ish.

Finding what works for you is important. Being able to stick to a diet is arguably as important as what it actually contains (within reason obviously). There's no point writing down a diet plan of tuna salads 3x a day of you can only manage that twice a week before binging on chocolate cake.
 
Skillmister said:
You seem like you're looking to be spoon fed (information, not literally) rather than applying other people's input to your personal situation and goals. But even then you aren't listening so not sure what more can be done
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Yes i do need more focussed ideas because i dont know what to include in my diet. And i dont know how to increase solid food calories in a clean way without needing to fit in too many samey meals during the day. Its not that im not listening but i need some meal ideas comprising foods that i like.

For example, yesterday I ate a rump steak with 2 eggs and a tin of spaghetti hoops. What would I add to this to make it better without making the portion too large that i cant finish it?
 
I am saying that you can eat smarter and progress at the bar building muscle as quick or almost as quick. You wont be gaining as much weight but that’s fine because you wont be gaining as much fat. Your energy levels will probably feel better if you nail it because you wont be smashing double chocolate pots of deserts and chocolate bars at one point in the day, yet having just two eggs and for breakfast at the start of the day.


You can progress at the bar by eating a lower calorie amount than 3000, you can manage your intake better but you cant do all that and be as fussy as you want to be. For example trying to sub out protein powder for whole milk to hit protein goals will make it difficult to keep your saturated fats and carbs down.


You are hung up on the idea of total calories as a tool to progress and weight on the scales as a way to measure it. This is a dangerous combination if you are a fussy eater and unfortunately you are very fussy.


Stuff I would personally change if it was me is introducing something like olive oil to your meals. If you swap your chicken breast out for a less lean part like thigh, you’ll increase calories of the meal without increasing portion size. Swap milk out for whey – don’t worry though you’ll get a bit of extra fat from chicken thighs but will rack up far less carbs and saturated fats after swapping the milk out.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
In about 2 weeks (when I can order a shedload of food shopping) I'll be shifting what I eat massively to end up protein heavy as I'm eating way too many carbs at the moment - probably 50%.
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I replaced a lot of the carby stuff of my meals with things like chickpeas, which are cheap and have a decent amount of protein/fibre. I also really like them and season with olive oil and other bits. My lunch has pretty much consisted of chickpeas, chicken and veg for months varying the amount of chickpeas depending on my deficit/surplus.
 
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