[[[The 2022 Gym Rats Thread]]] ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ

Again thats a lot of work to do properly in a 30-40 minute session. If you just lift for the sake of lifting you're never going to progress meaningfully, and to do all that work in 30-40 minutes it will have to be a loads that just wont stress the body enough.
 
How slowly am i supposed to do things though?

If i'm mimicing the motion to myself now, even a slow movement on something like a bench press is only ~5 seconds. Multiply that by 6 reps and i'm at 40 seconds at most, allowing for some slowdown on later reps. Add in 60 second rests between and you're at just under 2 minutes per set. Multiple by 4 sets and it's around 7 minutes per exercise given there's only 3 rest periods.

I know something bigger like a squat/deadlift might take slightly longer per rep but certainly not considerably so. Looking at the video below (completely random first pick example) he's knocked out 2 squats inside the opening 10 seconds, which supports my ~30 seconds for 6 reps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0qC1k0Zi6k&ab_channel=Calisthenicmovement


Where are adding in the extra time to drag out a session beyond 40 minutes? Again the below extract is just plucked from the first result on google for "how long should you rest between sets" but it suggests an even shorter rest between sets to build muscular endurance and that i'm in the right ballpark to increase muscle growth.

In its book, "Essentials of Strength Training & Conditioning," the National Strength & Conditioning Association recommends the following:

  • To increase strength and power, the best rest period is 2-5 minutes between sets.
  • To increase hypertrophy (muscle growth), the best rest period is 30-90 seconds between sets.
  • To increase muscular endurance, the best rest period is 30 seconds or less between sets.
https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/how-long-should-you-rest-between-sets.html
 
Yeah but with bench for example you don't suddenly start on your working weight. I 2x do rotator cuff exercises and usually 3/4 jumps to working weight depending on rep range.

Squats I easily do 4/5 sets at a lighter weight before working. Deadlifts will probably be similar.
 
Its not about how slowly you lift, its about how much intensity is in the session.

For example with all the major compounds i do 2-3 warm up sets minimum to refresh me of the movement pattern and get things moving up. Working sets then tend to have 2-3 mins rest in between because of the intensity.
If you are doing your biggest movements and only resting for 60 seconds then you arent close to a limit in terms of what your body can handle and if your body isnt pushed to limits it has no reason to adapt.

This is also completely ignoring an actual warm up, say 5 mins on a treadmill just to get the blood flowing and 3-5 mins of various stretchs or band mobilisations etc, all of which helps get more out of the movements you are about to do.

Even on your other more isolation focused exercises your looking at 1 min rest between but more working reps so sets take longer, generally for pull downs, or rows etc im looking at 45-60 seconds working minimum.

Its only when you get to real isolation exercises like curls or triceps that you can start to super set and combine rest periods to save time.

You would be much better off reducing the exercises and paying more care to what you are doing, do it with more intensity and spread the variation out over the week then trying to fit in 6-7 exercises just because you feel something is missing, and doing everything to 50%.

Also if you have shifted from working out in a gym to working out at home, why are you still only allotting yourself the same amount of time? surely you've clawed back any travel and changing time that you should then put back in to the workout time?
 
Ah yeah, i guess that makes sense. I tend to just open with 20 quick reps with an empty bar for most exercises as a warm up. I guess maybe that changes once you start getting beyond 40-60kg as your general weight levels and start pushing higher and need a more progressive build up.

Its not about how slowly you lift, its about how much intensity is in the session.

For example with all the major compounds i do 2-3 warm up sets minimum to refresh me of the movement pattern and get things moving up. Working sets then tend to have 2-3 mins rest in between because of the intensity.
If you are doing your biggest movements and only resting for 60 seconds then you arent close to a limit in terms of what your body can handle and if your body isnt pushed to limits it has no reason to adapt.

Even on your other more isolation focused exercises your looking at 1 min rest between but more working reps so sets take longer, generally for pull downs, or rows etc im looking at 45-60 seconds working minimum.

Its only when you get to real isolation exercises like curls or triceps that you can start to super set and combine rest periods to save time.

You would be much better off reducing the exercises and paying more care to what you are doing, do it with more intensity and spread the variation out over the week then trying to fit in 6-7 exercises just because you feel something is missing, and doing everything to 50%.

See above, i guess at your weight levels i guess more warmup sets probably make a little more sense.

I agree i'm probably not pushing to the limits of what i could achieve, but at the same point i have no intention of doing. I don't want to be breaking myself at limiting point which then causes severe aches for days which impact on my sports. I just want to be pushing myself "enough" to build strength to enhance my performance in running/cycling. I had assumed that as long as the final reps of any set were difficult then i would still see progression because i'm still pushing my body past where it's comfortable.

I may be coming to this with the wrong mindset, but with running you do 80% of the workouts at an "easy" level to keep the body ticking over. It's where the biggest gains in performance are and all about building the base rather than going out pushing for new bests every session. I may be wrong in trying to apply that process for weights.

I think in light of your comments, i'll likely strip out the arm based stuff. It's taking up time and i'd prefer to concentrate on more compound lifts to get general "body" strength that then aids my sports rather than target the more vanity muscles.

Would something like this be better? Again i think a 2 workout style routine similar to Stronglifts works better for me. That way if i do 2 sessions one week or 4 the next, i'm never missing a particular "designated day"

Workout A
Squat (Will look to move to single leg variants in the future) 4x6
Good Morning 4x6
Deadlift 3x6
Standing Calf Raise 4x10 (these could probably be pushed out in between the squats as they're quick)

Workout B
Bench Press 4x6
Overhead Press 4x6
Bent Over Row 4x6
Single Leg Deadlift 3x6 - Lighter weight than main deadlift, mainly to work on balance/ankle strength)


Ultimately i'm focusing on the back/legs as i believe that's what will give me the best improvements in running/cycling. Then it's balanced out with the presses.

I guess the only concern is mixing Squats and Deadlifts which are both intense exercises, but the Stronglifts program does that too and so i assume is ok?
 
Last edited:
@Martynt74 Are you aware of the training principle of RPE, rate of perceived exertion, or RIR, reps in reserve?

Both of these scales might help you push a higher level of intensity in your workouts. For example strength of hypertrophy most of the work i do is to a minimum RPE 7 with compounds mostly at RPE 8 and most hypertrophy going up to RPE9.

RPE is a 1-10 scale, 10 meaning you have nothing left in reserve, 9 being you could have done 1 more rep, 8 meaning 2 more reps etc.

You can judge RPE against any rep but its good practice to judge it against reps with good form, so if you are doing a set at RPE 9 you should finish that set knowing you only had 1 more rep with good form in you.


Ah yeah, i guess that makes sense. I tend to just open with 20 quick reps with an empty bar for most exercises as a warm up. I guess maybe that changes once you start getting beyond 40-60kg as your general weight levels and start pushing higher and need a more progressive build up.

Im not sure ive mentioned the weights im moving around in a while to be fair, but ive seen you posting long enough to know you should be comfortably past the 40-60kg mark now and maybe its your approach thats holding you back, ie quantity <> quality
 
Im not sure ive mentioned the weights im moving around in a while to be fair, but ive seen you posting long enough to know you should be comfortably past the 40-60kg mark now and maybe its your approach thats holding you back, ie quantity <> quality

it's generally because i very rarely go to the gym, so every time i make progression i end up resetting it by not going for a few months at a time. I would say at most i probably spend 6 weeks at the gym before taking a long break :p I'm now setup in the shed and hoping it makes it easy for me to do what i need to do. Whether that happens or not is another matter.

Yes, i'm aware of RPE, i would say that most things are generally around a 5-6. I think mainly because i often take long breaks and so stay light to ensure form is correct. Then as i get comfortable with it and start pushing, i find an excuse to not go to the gym and the cycle starts again!

I also generally find i have a habit where i'll find a weight which feels like a struggle and then settle with it rather than trying to push myself by increasing each time. I was thinking that's where Stronglift program might help.

It's also worth noting that my bodily sense is appalling. As such i always find it very difficult to engage specific muscles. No amount of advice has ever helped me in this situation. Tell me to hold my core and i'll just tense and hold my breath!
 
Workout A
Squat (Will look to move to single leg variants in the future) 4x6
Good Morning 4x6
Deadlift 3x6
Standing Calf Raise 4x10 (these could probably be pushed out in between the squats as they're quick)

Workout B
Bench Press 4x6
Overhead Press 4x6
Bent Over Row 4x6
Single Leg Deadlift 3x6 - Lighter weight than main deadlift, mainly to work on balance/ankle strength)


Ultimately i'm focusing on the back/legs as i believe that's what will give me the best improvements in running/cycling. Then it's balanced out with the presses.

I guess the only concern is mixing Squats and Deadlifts which are both intense exercises, but the Stronglifts program does that too and so i assume is ok?

Fiting your calf raises in between your squat sets is going to directly impact your squats due to you not actually resting between squat sets. Squats, GM's and deads all on the same workout can be pretty intensive.

Rather then sicking to 2 workouts, have you considered doing 4 workouts per week with less fluff, and following a push pull or upper lower approach.

An example would be: (where @ x is RPE)

Lower 1:
Squat 3x6 @ 7
RDL 3x10 @ 7
Goblet Squat 3x12 @ 8
Calf Raise 3x10 @9

Upper 1:
Bench press 3x8 @ 7
Pull up 3x8 @ 8
DB Row 3x10 @8
Lateral Raise 3x12 @ 9

Lower 2:
Deadlift 3x6 @ 8
Dumbbell Bulgarian Split Squat 3x10 @ 8
Step Up 3x12 @ 7
Hip Thrust 3x8 @ 8

Upper 2:
Overhead Press 3x8 @ 7
Chin Up 3x8 @ 8
Incline DB Bench 3x8 @ 8
Face Pulls 3x12 @ 9

If you get through all 4 exercises in the time you say you use 30-40 mins then you havent hit the RPE requirement, and you know the next time you do that workout you need to increase the weight. Use your first of each session to explore what the RPE feels like so example, if set 1 of bench feels like RPE 5, increase the weight, if set 2 feels like a 6, increase the weight etc
 
I did consider a 4 workout week plan, i just can't honestly say i could guarantee i'd always do them. What happens then on weeks where i only do 2 sessions? Do i just start again in week 2 and miss the 2 out, or do i roll forward the previous sessions?

There's also a lot in there i can't do.

Goblet Squats - I have adjustable dumbells, but not sure i'd trust the collars to hold the weight in place
Pull up/Chin up - I have no bar (not that i can do a pull up anyway :p), and when i tried to add a bar to my shed rood, it didn't feel stable no matter how much i braced it.
Split Squat - As above, i have no space to do a split squat with a barbell and not enough weights to use dumbells. Unless i maybe held a single dumbell like a kettlebell
Incline/Decline anything - I only have a flat bench. I chose rigidity of that over a lower end adjustable bench
Face pulls - No cables - I do have a band, but it's more of a rehab band than anything strength based.
 
I did consider a 4 workout week plan, i just can't honestly say i could guarantee i'd always do them. What happens then on weeks where i only do 2 sessions? Do i just start again in week 2 and miss the 2 out, or do i roll forward the previous sessions?

There's also a lot in there i can't do.

Goblet Squats - I have adjustable dumbells, but not sure i'd trust the collars to hold the weight in place
Pull up/Chin up - I have no bar (not that i can do a pull up anyway :p), and when i tried to add a bar to my shed rood, it didn't feel stable no matter how much i braced it.
Split Squat - As above, i have no space to do a split squat with a barbell and not enough weights to use dumbells. Unless i maybe held a single dumbell like a kettlebell
Incline/Decline anything - I only have a flat bench. I chose rigidity of that over a lower end adjustable bench
Face pulls - No cables - I do have a band, but it's more of a rehab band than anything strength based.
Highlighted and bold bit is just bs and an excuse, read on before taking offense.

You can always just continue the pattern from where you left off, L1 U1 L2 U2 rinse repeat.

  • Goblet squats you can just hold the weight plate until you get up to over 20kg, i assume you have a 2.5kg, 5kg, 10kg, 15kg, 20kg plates selection? If not i found that i would load up 1 side of my dumbbell handle and the collar just be holding the handle in to the plates, then you can just lift it using the your hands under the weights, actually more comfortable then trying to hold the handle.
  • Pull up / Chin up - do you not have a house you can attach the bar to? also they can be made assisted with the use of resistance bands.
  • Split squats - you can do offset split squats using 1 dumbbell and this will force you to also cross brace. Hold the DB in the hand opposite to the leg you are putting forward
  • Incline / Decline - then just do flat, or swap that movement for Dips there are numerous dip options as well.
  • Face pulls - get some bands, one of the best investments you can make and so versatile. usable for all sorts.
How much weight do you have ? i was trying to keep things as basic as possible but without knowing your actual setup its hard.

Also, and sorry if this comes across blunt, but your biggest hurdle right now is getting over making excuses, just get on with it! A sub par workout due to some alternative movements being put in due to current equipment limitations but done with the right intensity is still better then a pointless low intensity workout.
 
Yes, to a house, although it's old and the bricks are unbelievably soft and so i wouldn't be comfortable mounting a pullup bar to it without a real fear of destroying the bricks. There's also a layer of decorative bricks at the height i'd need it mounting so it just isn't possible.

Will try those variations for split squats. I had wrongly believed that i would need balance across both sides.

Weight wise i can currently go to around 100kg with everything loaded on, including the bar.

6ft bar = 15kg
Dumbells are around 5kg each

Then plate wise i have 2x 20kg, 6x5kg, 2x2.5kg and 2x1.25kg

My plan is to pick up some 10kg plates in the near term. Especially as i'd like some full sized bumpers for things like deadlifts. My 20kg plates are quite small in diameter. I currently use some pepsi cases as blocks, but it's not ideal.


I'll agree with excuses. I'm just trying to find the right balance which suits me. I'll hold my hands up and accept my knowledge is lacking, but it feels like your goals/expectations are a long way away from mine. I'm looking for strength work purely as a complimentary exercise to running and other activities. If i'm committing ~10hours a week to activity, then realistically i only want a max of 2 of those hours to be weight based.
If it takes me 6 weeks to increase my squat from 50kg to 60kg but left enough in reserve to run 40 miles a week when i could have otherwise gone from 50 to 80kg with more dedication which left my legs dead for anything else then it's a no brainer for me.
 
I made it through deadlifts alive this morning! :p
I wasn't focused on too much on working weight, just getting the hamstrings used the movement again and trying to gauge what I'll be doing.
I think 4x4 for my working sets. Do we think I should do 4x4 with straps and belt one day then next workout 4x4 unequipped or do something like 4x10 for the unequipped lifts?
 
If a pull up bar will destroy brick your house would have fallen down years ago, you can adjust the height you would fix it at to be above or below the decorative layer of bricks as well, you would then just bend your legs a little or just a little step up and you are fine.

There's no reason you cannot gain strength/muscle and run at the same time, and the amount of strength you can gain without it having a detrimental impact on your other activities is much more then 10kg in 6 weeks. Food intake might be an adjustment requirement at some point to help keep sufficient energy levels for your lifting and running but that's the main thing. Timing of sessions as well another, but still with decent food intake timings you will be good.

The plan I laid out for you is easily sufficient to fit in your time scales and provide you enough to do movements intensely. The reason I'm putting the effort in with the responses is so that you can approach this without ending up treading water with your training. There would be nothing more demotivating then you doing something for a year and the end result being nil. Lifting weights for the sake of lifting weights is almost worthless, to impart change, be that visual (size) or strength, you need to stress the muscles / body enough to have to adapt and change. Lifting at 50% capacity or less all the time really does nothing for you, in fact it probably just wastes that 30-40 mins per session.

For each of the big compounds you can EASILY as a beginner add 2.5kg per session, maybe even 5kg per session for the first few to squats and deads, until you hit your RPE level. Even starting strength and stronglifts have you adding weight each session and for those you squat each session for example adding 2.5kg per go! Starting with an empty bar thats 65kg squats in 6 weeks from a staring point of 20kg!
 
I made it through deadlifts alive this morning! :p
I wasn't focused on too much on working weight, just getting the hamstrings used the movement again and trying to gauge what I'll be doing.
I think 4x4 for my working sets. Do we think I should do 4x4 with straps and belt one day then next workout 4x4 unequipped or do something like 4x10 for the unequipped lifts?
I would do 4x4 unequipped until you get to a weight where you feel you would benefit, then add on a belt and lastly straps if you cant use liquid chalk. Personally i don't think there's any point jumping between using the belt and not, its actually helpful in improving core development by giving you something to brace harder in to, so your using the muscles harder with the belt anyway, not just because the weight is higher. No harm in doing your warm ups without until your last warmup set when its good to stick the belt on to refresh yourself with using it.
 
If a pull up bar will destroy brick your house would have fallen down years ago, you can adjust the height you would fix it at to be above or below the decorative layer of bricks as well, you would then just bend your legs a little or just a little step up and you are fine.

There's no reason you cannot gain strength/muscle and run at the same time, and the amount of strength you can gain without it having a detrimental impact on your other activities is much more then 10kg in 6 weeks. Food intake might be an adjustment requirement at some point to help keep sufficient energy levels for your lifting and running but that's the main thing. Timing of sessions as well another, but still with decent food intake timings you will be good.

The plan I laid out for you is easily sufficient to fit in your time scales and provide you enough to do movements intensely. The reason I'm putting the effort in with the responses is so that you can approach this without ending up treading water with your training. There would be nothing more demotivating then you doing something for a year and the end result being nil. Lifting weights for the sake of lifting weights is almost worthless, to impart change, be that visual (size) or strength, you need to stress the muscles / body enough to have to adapt and change. Lifting at 50% capacity or less all the time really does nothing for you, in fact it probably just wastes that 30-40 mins per session.

For each of the big compounds you can EASILY as a beginner add 2.5kg per session, maybe even 5kg per session for the first few to squats and deads, until you hit your RPE level. Even starting strength and stronglifts have you adding weight each session and for those you squat each session for example adding 2.5kg per go! Starting with an empty bar thats 65kg squats in 6 weeks from a staring point of 20kg!

Picture of the house below, it's the only one which shows it from the sale article, essentially the issue is that we have a wrap around single story extension and the decorative brick sticks out at around the 7ft level. To go under this would have the bar at around 6ft. With arms fully extended i'd have to have no legs to be able to have enough room. I could put it at the front, but no-one wants a pull up bar on the front of the house as people visit!

TuxHbHS.png


I do appreciate the responses and i hope it doesn't come across with me being dismissive or anti-advice. I think it comes from an experience i had early last year where i saw a PT once a week and after each session my legs were toast for days which had a huge negative impact on my running.

I think what i'll look to do is setup a training calendar and try and work everything into it whilst giving sufficient time between workouts. Something like this. The knees over toes is mainly bodyweight leg based stuff, aimed at strengthening and increasing mobility in the lesser used muscles to help injury prevention and build some strength. As mentioned before, i would love to get the Monkey Feet but shipping makes it pretty expensive.

Whether the weights on the Monday is a good idea after the Sunday run, but maybe i can focus on non-leg stuff. Again similar on Fridays i could probably add a weight session.

My concern being that filling it up too much leaves little downtime. In the summer i'd also want to get out on the bike.

Evenings are generally good for weights, as my wife goes to bed fairly early (~9pm). I try and avoid running at that point because i then get home fairly late and disturb her a lot by going to shower. Weights would be less of an issue.

caiQApU.png



Diet wise, again that's something i'm going to need to work out. I've generally aimed for ~1500kcal per day and then eaten exercise calories on top of that. My aim is to move to a more regular 2500kcal per day level and then not have spikes on days where i exercise (unless i'm doing excessive amounts)
 
Last edited:
If you have a tree you can do pull ups on that. Or if you have space for a rack... If you don't mind spending money you can get free standing pull up bars.

Is your bar 15kg? Most bars are 20kg, I'd be careful doing much more than 150kg deads on a 15kg bar
 
If you have a tree you can do pull ups on that. Or if you have space for a rack... If you don't mind spending money you can get free standing pull up bars.

Is your bar 15kg? Most bars are 20kg, I'd be careful doing much more than 150kg deads on a 15kg bar

Yeah, it's deffo 15kg, i couldn't fit a 7ft bar into the shed, so found this one which is 6ft but loses the length from the sleeves rather than the middle section so still works with normal sized racks

https://mirafit.co.uk/mirafit-6ft-i...RxmEiyJtThVwgQQspkYdzGF9SNpwEMwxoC0vMQAvD_BwE

Rack wise, i have the adjustable Mirafit rack. Whether that's stable enough to do a pullup using the bar on the highest level i'm not sure. Mirafit don't seem to give a loading capacity for it. Possibly something i could try?
 
Started doing some LISS incline treadmill walking, I know I can walk outside but well - IRL and stuff.

Doing it post strength so it doesn't affect my baby-gainz. Tried to stomach looking for some vegan protein powder today and well, I thought diesel was getting expensive! Jesus wept
 
@Martynt74 Thats quite a lot of physical activity to fit in and do all of it to get a good benefit from. Honestly if you are doing KoT stuff i would suggest you follow that program religiously and start increasing the resistance there rather than try and do weights sessions as well. The full programs cover all body parts and use loaded resistance.

In terms of the pull up bar even if it is at 6 foot thats not far off where many racks have the pull up bar, 6ft 6inch / 2m. You bend your legs behind you when doing pullups, even for someone your height I cant see why that isnt possible, especially when suggested alternatives are using towels thrown over the top of a closed door in a house!

Using your rack if its the one i think it is at full height might be a little dubious, you would have to have the bar loaded and probably extra weight on the feet to make sure its stable.
 
Back
Top Bottom