The all encompassing BNP thread - keep all crap in here.

cheets64 · 22 Oct 2009 at 16:03

eggyoke said:
Well thats not right at all.

Griffin is completely spot on here. Yes on face value it doesn't mean kids are going to shoot people, but common sense dictates it obviously goes deeper than that.

There are huge working class communities in Liverpool and the kids grow up with fathers who are traders, factory workers, processors etc. These kids are raised in that environment and see their futures in that manner (apart from the odd few obviously.)

I grew up with kids like these, I know how it works with them. I went through the same school process with them, and I know many of them are now working the factories in the industrial estates. They don't grow up aspiring to have a lifelong career, it doesn't even enter their minds as a possibility. They grow up expecting to be a laborer.

Some of my friends from school where incredibly intelligent lads. Some of the smartest lads I've ever known, however they simply would not accept a life away from where they grew up because its just bred into them ...its impossible for me to describe to someone whose never experienced or grown up in a similar social setting.

Taking away these industries has helped (I'm not saying caused as there are obviously many factors to consider) ferment this type of mentality. These kids have no place to fit in with "normal" escalator society, and so they stick together in tight knit communities. Gangs are a by product of this type of life. The "postcode" gangs of Norris Green are a prime example.

This has gone on now for years and its such an ingrained mentality that violence, ignorance and the "outcast" lifestyle is all they have and know. Gun crime is merely a natural step-up.

Bringing back a strong industry within these towns would help a lot. It would give them a platform to society and demonstrate to them through peers and older working-class men (who arn't suite wearing ****-heads) that there is more to life than crime. The last thing these kids would do is put up with an office job with some snobbish gob-**** of a boss, or integrate with people they just cant relate to or even understand.

But they don't care about society, if they dont care about who they hurt so how are they ever going to better themselves, it takes a big man to walk away from crime, they are nothing but children with zero education, they are scared and confused inside, look at the Rhys Jones murder, he died because of a gang member was seeing and a rival gang members relation.

eggyoke · 22 Oct 2009 at 16:08

vonhelmet said:
As I always end up asking in there threads... Where do we stand on immigants who do pay taxes and put no strain on the nhs? What about homegrown scum never working and claiming benefits all the time? If it's net contributions we're worried about, I'd much rather kick out all the ******.

The argument is really about our social security system, and immigrants are a convenient scapegoat.

Regardless of how well integrated an immigrant may be in our country, they should not take priority over our own children. If there are large problems within this country (which there is) then until those problems are ironed out we should not be allowing the masses in to cover the holes and problems we have, which is basically whats happening IMO. The government has failed so badly on so many areas and have let everyone down.

NoIdea · 22 Oct 2009 at 16:09

Dolph said:
The irony being that the vast majority of BNP supporters are not net contributors themselves, certainly not by the time you factor in the criminal convictions and so on that seem to come alongside BNP membership...

Do you have any factual evidence to support that?

eggyoke · 22 Oct 2009 at 16:14

cheets64 said:
But they don't care about society, if they dont care about who they hurt so how are they ever going to better themselves, it takes a big man to walk away from crime, they are nothing but children with zero education, they are scared and confused inside, look at the Rhys Jones murder, he died because of a gang member was seeing and a rival gang members relation.

Unfortunately todays crime in these areas shows just how badly its become. There is no doubt many of these kids are a lost cause, however I know lads that I thought would spiral out of control but now have families and work in the industries and have really matured. They would be the first to admit their mistakes in brutal honesty, but I guarantee they'd tell you the same thing as I did in my original post.

Dolph · 22 Oct 2009 at 16:17

NoIdea said:
Do you have any factual evidence to support that?

How about we do a survey on this forum of BNP voters vs other voters and criminal records?

Or we can look at the type of people the BNP appeals to and who they claim as their target audience and work out how many of those are net economic contributors?

Neodite · 22 Oct 2009 at 16:31

Dolph said:
How about we do a survey on this forum of BNP voters vs other voters and criminal records?

Or we can look at the type of people the BNP appeals to and who they claim as their target audience and work out how many of those are net economic contributors?

A simple no would have done

*Edit* You do realise what you are doing tho right? By painting BNP votes with the same brush (ZOMGz YOU VOTED BNP YOU MUSTS BE CRIMINAL AND RASIST MOFO THAT DENYS HOLOCASTZ)

Your no better than people that paint black africans as "gang thugs"

*DDDDDDDOUBLE EDIT* Id also like to clear up that im not a BNP voter

infact i have not and wont vote for anyone, because it dont matter who runs the country, we will still get **** on

dirtydog · 22 Oct 2009 at 16:34

Neodite said:
A simple no would have done

This

deuse · 22 Oct 2009 at 16:39

Dolph said:
The irony being that the vast majority of BNP supporters are not net contributors themselves,...

Proof please

Chimerical · 22 Oct 2009 at 16:40

Neodite said:
*Edit* You do realise what you are doing tho right? By painting BNP votes with the same brush (ZOMGz YOU VOTED BNP YOU MUSTS BE CRIMINAL AND RASIST MOFO THAT DENYS HOLOCASTZ)

Your no better than people that paint black africans as "gang thugs"

Not really, there is a difference between stereotyping attitudes and skin colour. Not only that, this is a political party we're talking about.

The voters would have to be pretty stupid voting for a racist party they didn't agree with.

Neodite · 22 Oct 2009 at 16:42

No.... there is NO differance between stereotyping attitudes and skin colour.

It's not just about race and color you know, jesus.

And you DON'T have to be racist to vote for a racist party, if you vote for labour does that mean your a fool that wants the UK to crumble? Because thats what they do

dirtydog · 22 Oct 2009 at 16:42

Chimerical said:
Not really, there is a difference between stereotyping attitudes and skin colour. Not only that, this is a political party we're talking about.

The voters would have to be pretty stupid voting for a racist party they didn't agree with.

Translation: discrimination and tarring with the same brush is fine when the targets are white British

NoIdea · 22 Oct 2009 at 16:42

Dolph said:
How about we do a survey on this forum of BNP voters vs other voters and criminal records?

Or we can look at the type of people the BNP appeals to and who they claim as their target audience and work out how many of those are net economic contributors?

You could have just said no, No I don't.

SexyGreyFox · 22 Oct 2009 at 16:46

stockhausen said:
I don't think you are right here; I suspect that Griffin will come across as reasoned, reasonable and a victim. He (and the BNP) have been waiting a very long time for this sort of exposure and they will have prepared for it very, very carefully. I believe that the BNP will get their hour in the spotlight and their membership list will grow as a result.

Agreed; force Griffin to get involved in questions that don't relate to race and he will probably come across as totally lost and irrelevant.

Kick his racist soapbox out from under his feet and he will fall flat on his face.

I agree with all points here and I'm one of the rare people who has actually had a 1:1 with him.
He is a clever man and will have an answer for everything that he is expecting to be thrown at him which will revolve around race issues.
What they need to throw at him are questions not related to race issues and he may trip up.
I lost my way a little bit in the early 00's but since late 2006 I want this party to die.

Chimerical · 22 Oct 2009 at 16:47

dirtydog said:
Translation: discrimination and tarring with the same brush is fine when the targets are white British

Again, not really. I know a BNP voter personally who doesn't fit into the Holocaust denying stereotype.

That doesn't mean that the majority of voters aren't themselves racist/racialist/nationalist. If they didn't want to appear racist or don't want to vote for a party with a racist constitution, why not vote UKIP?

I'll repeat, voting for a political party (especially a small one like the BNP) kind of defines your views for you. Just like the majority of Green Party voters will be eco-friendly socialists. If not, then why the hell would they vote for such a party?

Neodite · 22 Oct 2009 at 16:50

Because the eco-lovers want everyone to be green, the BNP does not want everyone to be racist. You realy are very one minded. I take it yourself your not british? As it does start to sound like you are taking it personaly

You do not have to be racist to agree with immigration being a problem, i don't care what color/race/alien/hell even superman

it's still a problem. Just because some of the members of the BNP are holocast denyers does not mean there voters are. That is the choice of BNP (They are retarded for being so, but so are other politicions for other things)

If you sent a spy in, im sure you will find a good few racists in the labour party too, and hell you would probably find a holocast denyer or two aswell.

Chimerical · 22 Oct 2009 at 16:56

Neodite said:
Because the eco-lovers want everyone to be green...You realy are very one minded. I take it yourself your not british? As it does start to sound like you are taking it personaly

Now who generalising?

No, I'm not taking it personally, I'm perfectly calm. I am a British citizen although as said, half my family are immigrants.

However this:

the BNP does not want everyone to be racist.

I find hard to believe. So what do they want everyone to be? Separate? I've already covered that with the racialist line.

You're going to have a hard job proving that quote especially after admitting that the Greens are all eco-lovers as you put it.

Neodite · 22 Oct 2009 at 16:58

Same as you would have a harder time proving they want us all to be racist.

You dont have to follow peoples belifs to agree with what the stand for (Even if they go about it the wrong way due to them being racist)

Chimerical · 22 Oct 2009 at 17:03

Neodite said:
Same as you would have a harder time proving they want us all to be racist.

It really wouldn't be difficult. There are plenty of videos showing racist/racialist/nationalist supporters. To proof the opposite is true its on you to provide the evidence.

You dont have to follow peoples belifs to agree with what the stand for (Even if they go about it the wrong way due to them being racist)

Well I think you do. Voting for a racist party is still donating your support to a racist party. If the supporters are then thought of as a racist as a result, well tough. It might not strictly be true (and I don't think it is in every case) but they've made their bed so to speak.

semi-pro waster · 22 Oct 2009 at 17:06

Neodite said:
Same as you would have a harder time proving they want us all to be racist.

You dont have to follow peoples belifs to agree with what the stand for (Even if they go about it the wrong way due to them being racist)

You've almost gone the whole way and defined one of the major problems of the BNP - if you don't agree with their views on race and miscegenation then there is very little point in voting for them, many of their policies are already extant in other parties who do not define people based on their race or their status as immigrants.

So why vote BNP unless it is the policies on race and miscegenation that appeal to you? Even if I agreed with the BNP's policies on certain topics (and they aren't always wrong on select topics - whether because they've claimed reasonable policies from another party as their own or they've come up with them themselves is open for debate) I still wouldn't vote for them overall because race is the issue that defines them and it is an issue that I can never agree with them on.

Neodite · 22 Oct 2009 at 17:08

There are plenty of racist people that vote for other partys too, you also dont have to be white to be racist......

Also you only seem to wanna talk about the immigration part, Do you think thats all they want to change? They also want to pull our troups from war and not send them out again just to lick americas ass (Lets face it, thats why we are over there now)

Do people have to be racist to belive in that too? (Seems as how they are a racist party after all)