The anti Israel = anti semitism agenda

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dowie said:
I think that was the wrong sort of word to use tbh... I mean back when I was at school being excluded meant being kicked out of school and was a serious thing that you'd rarely see happen to anyone.

sounds like with this kid they just sent him home for the rest of the day - they've called it a "fixed term exclusion" but frankly, at half a day it is barely what used to be called a "suspension"

needs context, if he's shouted it at a kid because that kid is Jewish then fair enough, it's like taunting some Pakistani/Muslim kid with stuff about Bin Laden or 9/11 etc..
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If they were taunting someone using abusive language or being derogative etc I would fully understand and would support the schools decision.
But just shouting "Free Palestine" does not seem like a negative thing to say? Without the full context we can't fully say for sure.

We used to have banter when we were in school all the time, I have heard/been called racially associated names/jokes but as it was during normal classroom banter no one got offended. Don't know if you remember or ever saw Goodness Gracious Me, that used to be taking the mick but we found it funny. The jokes and what not is not offensive themselves, but rather the context and the reason behind them being used imo.
 
hurfdurf said:
if he’s randomly bullying some Jewish kid with “Free Palestine” then the suspension seems fair.
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According to the report: "The relative claims her nephew made the remark 'in a discussion amongst classmates' and that he is also being asked to make an apology on Monday morning."
If it was just banter in class they could have just resolved the issue by making the kid apologise and giving him an internal exclusion imo.
By excluding him and writing on the letter he is excluded because he said "free palestine" on the letter without any context they have left themselves open to the backlash in the current social media climate.
 
dowie said:
Well neither singing "come on Mr Taliban hand over Bin Laden" but can you see how it could be if directed at someone purely because they're Muslim/Pakistani?
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I have heard this myself, its not something you get offended by when its in banter between friends/class mates. But if a random skinhead was to shout it out to every brown person they see its not as a joke but rather racist in nature.

I mean its unlikely that you go up to a random person in the street and start cracking a joke, specifically one that can be taken as being offensive.
 
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Robi_uk said:
According to the report: "The relative claims her nephew made the remark 'in a discussion amongst classmates' and that he is also being asked to make an apology on Monday morning."
If it was just banter in class they could have just resolved the issue by making the kid apologise and giving him an internal exclusion imo.
By excluding him and writing on the letter he is excluded because he said "free palestine" on the letter without any context they have left themselves open to the backlash in the current social media climate.
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According to a relative, who wasn’t in the classroom. I’m sure!

It’s the kids of the parents who refuse to see their kids are trouble makers who are the worst by far.
 
Dis86 said:
No, but the problem is Hamas are trying to lay the blame squarely at the feet of Israel when they pull tricks like that. They will never have a legitimate argument when they continue to do so.
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What are they supposed to do? You're asking people to give up what many of the view as their only defense in the hopes of what exactly? We already know neither the ultra-Zionists nor Islamist extremists want there to be peace, so how do you get Palestinians around those two barriers?

I think the only way to force discussions at this point is to send a significant force into Gaza with aid to appease folks and to empower a newly formed PLO (with the backing of major Arab states) whilst rooting out Hamas so they don't scupper things (again) such that Israel doesn't feels justified in bombing the place anyway. This of course won't happen, but sitting around waiting for the inevitable expansion of Israel (with all the consequences we currently see magnitudes worsened) and further instability in/around Israel doesn't seem sensible to me.
 
Just been reading a bit more on the general situation and IMO, in the long term, the far-right Israelis/settlers might have screwed themselves over here. Everyone bangs on about a two-state solution, pre-67 borders etc.. but lets be realistic, that is never likey to happen.

Firstly there are 600k settlers or so in the West Bank, good luck moving them, they've barely managed to deal with the 8000 or so they evacuated from Gaza.

So realistically a "two state solution" actually means more of a puppet state for Palestinians - at the very best it might involve the isolated settlements in the West Bank being closed down and some sort of land swap deal for the settlements close to the border with Israel (you're not realistically going to close those settlements)... also East Jerusalem seems like a non-starter too. Quite plausibly it could still involve some settlements remaining surrounded by Palestinian territory too and requirements for the rights to some access roads etc.. for Israeli use. And of course, Israel would probably still want to monitor things, including borders etc... I'd also presume the right to return for refugees living in Syria, Jordan etc.. and/or their descendants would be denied.

So essentially the only plausible "two state solution" is one in which future Palestine isn't really a fully-fledged state, just has a it more control over perhaps a bit more land than it currently has but still has various chunks carved out for Israeli settlements and some oversight from Israel... and may or may not include Gaza as part of the same state. Might not be something Palestinians want to go for.

And of course, the longer it is left the more Israeli settlements grow and there is the risk that at some point the lobbying efforts in the US don't work out so well, if that ever happens then the settlement activities which have proven to be a big barrier to a two-state solution then backfire. If the US ever changed tract and we ended up with some sort of South Africa situation, then the pressure could be on for a one-state solution... if/when that happens then potential for a big can of worms - birth rates etc.. present the risk to the Israelis of a Palestinian majority (less so if they don't include Gaza), if the Palestinians/Arab Israelis get sufficient political power and can bring in the Palestinian refugees from Syria and Jordan then it's game over, the whole notion of a democratic Jewish state collapses and they have at best a democratic multi-ethnic or secular state "Israel-Palestine" and at worst the potential for someone to attempt to turn it into an Islamic state and more conflict, Balkans style.
 
hurfdurf said:
According to a relative, who wasn’t in the classroom. I’m sure!

It’s the kids of the parents who refuse to see their kids are trouble makers who are the worst by far.
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Not sure if its this case here as I try not to generalise, but in most cases I cannot agree with you more on this statement.
There was once this incident in a school where a boy got excluded for getting caught carrying a knife, in the interview afterwards the mother blamed the school saying that he came in with a knife once before and if the school had caught him the first time then he wouldn't have been carrying a knife a second time.. I mean he could have had the knife all the time and just so happened to have got caught now. Some parents are crazy...
 
Robi_uk said:
I have heard this myself, its not something you get offended by when its in banter between friends/class mates. But if a random skinhead was to shout it out to every brown person they see its not as a joke but rather racist in nature.

I mean its unlikely that you go up to a random person in the street and start cracking a joke, specifically one that can be taken as being offensive.
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No one is talking about a random person in the street, I'd not assume they were necessarily mates just because they're in the same class together, "friends/classmates" is a very naive thing to conflate!
 
dowie said:
Just been reading a bit more on the general situation... [snip]
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Pretty much the reason why it's already too late for the people of Palestine. In another 70 years Gaza could simply be a beach resort full of carefree tourists and its people long forgotten.
 
Le Clandestin Brun said:
I don't know if that is true as it does sound quite far fetched and Facebook is full of fake attention seekers, however situations close to this occurring was my fear when I created this thread a couple years ago. The civilised worlds loss of critical thought to automated mindlessness.
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I had a google, supposedly racist because the person he said it to at a guess was Jewish:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...l-issues-clarification-over-incident-20608654
 
dowie said:
Just been reading a bit more on the general situation and IMO, in the long term, the far-right Israelis/settlers might have screwed themselves over here. Everyone bangs on about a two-state solution, pre-67 borders etc.. but lets be realistic, that is never likey to happen.

Firstly there are 600k settlers or so in the West Bank, good luck moving them, they've barely managed to deal with the 8000 or so they evacuated from Gaza.

So realistically a "two state solution" actually means more of a puppet state for Palestinians - at the very best it might involve the isolated settlements in the West Bank being closed down and some sort of land swap deal for the settlements close to the border with Israel (you're not realistically going to close those settlements)... also East Jerusalem seems like a non-starter too. Quite plausibly it could still involve some settlements remaining surrounded by Palestinian territory too and requirements for the rights to some access roads etc.. for Israeli use. And of course, Israel would probably still want to monitor things, including borders etc... I'd also presume the right to return for refugees living in Syria, Jordan etc.. and/or their descendants would be denied.

So essentially the only plausible "two state solution" is one in which future Palestine isn't really a fully-fledged state, just has a it more control over perhaps a bit more land than it currently has but still has various chunks carved out for Israeli settlements and some oversight from Israel... and may or may not include Gaza as part of the same state. Might not be something Palestinians want to go for.

And of course, the longer it is left the more Israeli settlements grow and there is the risk that at some point the lobbying efforts in the US don't work out so well, if that ever happens then the settlement activities which have proven to be a big barrier to a two-state solution then backfire. If the US ever changed tract and we ended up with some sort of South Africa situation, then the pressure could be on for a one-state solution... if/when that happens then potential for a big can of worms - birth rates etc.. present the risk to the Israelis of a Palestinian majority (less so if they don't include Gaza), if the Palestinians/Arab Israelis get sufficient political power and can bring in the Palestinian refugees from Syria and Jordan then it's game over, the whole notion of a democratic Jewish state collapses and they have at best a democratic multi-ethnic or secular state "Israel-Palestine" and at worst the potential for someone to attempt to turn it into an Islamic state and more conflict, Balkans style.
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How about a 1 state solution where everyone gets the right to vote and equal rights (currently Arab Israelis don't have this). Extremists on both sides can't win and you get moderate parties that appeal to the greater good.
 
ANDREW GREEN said:
How about a 1 state solution where everyone gets the right to vote and equal rights (currently Arab Israelis don't have this). Extremists on both sides can't win and you get moderate parties that appeal to the greater good.
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Re-read the last bit, that was a possibility suggested!
 
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