*** The Car Cleaning Thread ***

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The more you post Mike the more you worry some of us and the more you conform almost exactly to the type of 'detailer' I was talking about earlier on. Some of the things you've said this morning have astounded me, I mean the one about 'if the laquer is thin enough to strike through it was going to happen anyway' was astounding.

If you are doing cars for anyone but your Mum or your best mate, and taking money for it, then you are doing it on a professional basis. It doesn't matter that you think you dont charge much (Though frankly £100 sounds like an awfully lot of money for a day of your time given you insist this is just a hobby), it doesn't matter that its something you do on the side.

You are charging money to customers in return for a service. You are, therefore, a pro. You don't get to decide whether its your problem or not if you cause damage to a customers vehicle. Its not your choice. Liability for damage is not decided on a sliding scale based on how much they pay you. Responsibility isn't a luxury item a customer choses based on how much they pay. People dont buy insurance so they can offer customers peace of mind. They buy insurance because if they dont, and they screw a car up, they could get themselves sued.

You charge people for work? You pay if you break it. It really is that simple.

I suggest you either learn, fast, about what liability is, or you restrict your 'activity' to close friends and family only.

And guess what - you dont get the option of sending it to your mates bodyshop if the customer doesn't that. And that verbal 'agreement' that if you trash the car its not your problem isnt worth a single thing.

If you cant handle the risk involved with being a pro, don't charge people for your 'services'. If you continue to operate the way you do now all you are doing is pretty much justifying the opinion of many that this market is crammed full of chancers who think they are pro because they can use a polishing machine, but will cut and run at the sight of trouble.
 
On a completely unrelated note - the first of few new toys;

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redeye_uk said:
How did you previously foam cars before you got the lance?
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I didn't. If I was doing a full job, I would usually manually spray with an APC dilute to loosen dirt.

I tried the Karcher foam bottle a few times with a high concentration of my usual car shampoo with a touch of APC, but the results weren't great.

DiamondMark said:
For the sake of 450 get the insurance, seems daft not to.
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If this becomes more regular, then I will - but I could do three more cars and never do it again - if this was the case, I could end up spending more money than I've made, just on insurance. I like doing it, but paying to do it is where I draw the line.
 
MikeHiow said:
If this becomes more regular, then I will - but I could do three more cars and never do it again - if this was the case, I could end up spending more money than I've made, just on insurance. I like doing it, but paying to do it is where I draw the line.
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But its ok for people to pay you?

You go through the laquer on the 2nd to last car you ever do and you'll wish you had that insurance. Provided you dont manage to fobb the customer off I guess :p
 
[TW]Fox;17134952 said:
Provided you dont manage to fobb the customer off I guess :p
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You're missing the point here - the "customer" is made aware of the responsibility I'm prepared to take before the job - if they are not happy with that, the job doesn't get done. Its that simple.

-Ad- said:
This just sums your whole attitude :rolleyes:
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You'd pay money for the privilege of detailing other people's cars then?
 
Some nice little turd bucket decided to key my car down the drivers side rear door and fractionally on to the drivers door, handle height. Fortunately, uber coats of wax and tough german paint meant the efforts were thwarted so they dug whatever impliment they used in a bit further. Basically, after pulling out my investment rotary polisher and polish, a few quick passes, I'm left with a scratch that is about an inch long.

I'm tempted to touch this up with a stick, acetone it's bad ass so it's level then give it a few passes.
 
Fett said:
£450ish it seems. Theres a whole insurance sub-forum on DW. Bugger all if you are working on a high end car.
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Didn't know it was that cheap. It's foolish not to. I know someone who ran a successful hand car-wash (back when they were new to the scene) and his insurance cost in the region of £2-3k. I think his was probably a bit different as it was his own premises.
 
MikeHiow said:
You're missing the point here - the "customer" is made aware of the responsibility I'm prepared to take before the job - if they are not happy with that, the job doesn't get done. Its that simple.
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I'm not missing the point.

You do not get to choose how much responsbility you have for your actions when you charge people for a service. I don't know what makes you think you can. Operating in this way, even as a hobby, is just ridiculous. It's like saying you'll do a bit of plumbing on the side as a hobby but if you flood the house it isnt your problem because hey, it was a cheap job.

You remind me of those car dealers who think that because a customer 'agrees' that a sale is 'PX to clear, trade' that they have no responsibility for it...

Depends how you word it as well. I can't imagine you saying 'There is a chance that I will ruin this panel, and if I do, thats not my problem', lets put it that way...

The very fact you are not only prepared to operate in this manner but cannot even see the problem with doing so is very worrying.
 
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MikeHiow said:
You'd pay money for the privilege of detailing other people's cars then?
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What you mean to say is that your not willing to spend the money on insurance to cover yourself for this little hobby business you are undertakin on other peoples cars.

If I was to do this properly then insurance, a PTG and lots of practise would be on the cars. Doing my own car or giving one of the families cars a going over with a finishing pad + finishing polish would certainly not require these.

But you are doing other peoples (mats of mates etc) cars for a knock down price, and it seems from the way you talk about how you conduct these 'services' that the customers take on the majority of the risk letting someone happily go at their paintwork with very little experience or cover for when somehting goes wrong!
 
Well, I guess in that respect I'm relying on the customer being honest and sticking to their word, if they have some further legal standing.

I word it completely honestly - Whilst I do not go mad when correcting paintwork, generally sticking to a mild polish and pad combination, and whilst it is uncommon (but not unheard of) there is always the possibility of striking through the clear coat, if there are thin spots or I **** up. In the event of this happening, given the nature in which I'm doing this job for you (for peanuts), I'm not willing to hold any responsibility for it.

The only response I've had is "That's fair enough", with one exception being "Just as long as you can spot when to stop if this happens, and don't keep going".
 
Let's take that last customer who said as long as you can spot it. Now imagine you didn't spot it and went through his bonnet. What do you do now? It's going to cost a lot to fix and he said he was happy as long as you spotted it before, but you didn't...

By the way, 100 quid for basic correction by someone who does not consider himself a pro and expects the customer to say never mind when he screws up is NOT peanuts really is it?
 
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MikeHiow said:
I didn't. If I was doing a full job, I would usually manually spray with an APC dilute to loosen dirt.

I tried the Karcher foam bottle a few times with a high concentration of my usual car shampoo with a touch of APC, but the results weren't great.
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Cool. You'll see a big improvement using the lance. I tend to open the nozel fully to achieve best results

-Ad- said:
From the mouth?
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:confused:
 
[TW]Fox;17135211 said:
Everyone makes mistakes, even you.

Now answer the question :p
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If I made the mistake, I'd feel obligated to pay for it, regardless of what responsibilities I do or don't have.

Sure, there is always risk, but then life is a big risk, but we have an amazing ability to assess risk.

That said, I certainly wouldn't be doing this if I could not afford to rectify such a situation.
 
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