The Chip Act USA and the potential unforseen consequences.

Flake87 said:
If only it were that simple. Some chips come from Taiwan, but I'm not convinced they all do, and that's the point, we don't know were all the stuff in products come from nor how intertwined supply streams are.

The point I was originally trying to make is that many products we perhaps take for granted might not be available in 3 months time.
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Well, how is that example not that simple?

Can you give an example of such a product or tell me when apple started using Chinese manufactured chips because AFAIK they don't ergo it is that simple in that case surely?

Again it seems like you're conflating different things here, I don't think this is unforeseen exactly either, people who *know* their products rely on some Chinese manufactured chips will know this is a potential issue.
 
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dowie said:
I think this is conflating different things, Chinese chip manufacturing and Chinese manufacturing of things containing chips.

For example, your phone (say an iPhone) might be manufactured in China, the chips inside it however come from Taiwan.
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And likely designed in the US or at least contain intellectual property from the US.
 
Well.. What an amazing time the next ten years will be. If we haven't had WW3 by then im gonna blow my pension and savings on the biggest world tour before it becomes a Fallout franchise theme park
 
dowie said:
Well, how is that example not that simple?

Can you give an example of such a product or tell me when apple started using Chinese manufactured chips because AFAIK they don't ergo it is that simple in that case surely?

Again it seems like you're conflating different things here, I don't think this is unforeseen exactly either, people who *know* their products rely on some Chinese manufactured chips will know this is a potential issue.
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Well it didn't take much of a search:

observer.com

Apple Abandons Plans to Use a Chinese Chip Supplier Following Biden’s Crackdown

Apple has halted plans to use memory chips made by China’s YMTC in iPhones after the Biden administration unveiled new trade restrictions targeting Chinese chipmakers.
observer.com observer.com
 
Chuk_Chuk said:
This. Europe should be doing more to get in on the semi-conductor industry. Kind of Ironic they don't, since the machines are made in Netherlands.
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Huge amounts of land, energy, water and human labour goes into making silicon wafers, all cheaper elsewhere... So it is.

Its not like making ourselves reliant on foreign despots is a bad idea or anything
 
Government subsidy very often leads down bad paths, its entirely ironic I would not bother to expend too much effort arguing about it as its such an established repeatable failure. They have a political agenda right or wrong that is part of this, generally any large program of this type equates to market disruption which is a net negative. I hope there is some positives found but often history says it does too much harm, production should be spread out globally I hope to be less vulnerable to disruption.
 
An apple iPhone is hardly universal tech anyway. Of far higher importance is everyday stuff in people's houses. I am very much in favour of distribution of manufacturing and shorter supply chains so I applaud these efforts.
It may make it easier for the average consumer to keep stuff for longer anyway if replacement costs are higher and parts less available. Hail the twenty year life cycle.
 
Hagar said:
An apple iPhone is hardly universal tech anyway. Of far higher importance is everyday stuff in people's houses. I am very much in favour of distribution of manufacturing and shorter supply chains so I applaud these efforts.
It may make it easier for the average consumer to keep stuff for longer anyway if replacement costs are higher and parts less available. Hail the twenty year life cycle.
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The world runs on compulsive consumerism, economy’s will implode if people stop buying things.
 
Hagar said:
Half or less of the world relies on compulsive consumerism, the rest relies on a dollar a day. My thoughts are tough **** if you are replacing perfectly serviceable stuff because, wants. Pay for it.
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His point is that the economy is a consumption based economy. The only reason those folk get a dollar is because of consumption.
 
Hagar said:
An apple iPhone is hardly universal tech anyway. Of far higher importance is everyday stuff in people's houses.
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issue is economy of scale , wafer fabs produce old and new silicon fab processes, and newer lower yield processes with higher margin are important in portfolio adjacent to run of the mill processes.


wildman said:
get your 4090 Ti's in now.
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ergh wait - chip demand is stalling/recession - look at nvidia share price, xbox sales, they're still talking up the car market but they'll be offering incentives soon,
so the actual demand for any new chinese chip capacity is limited (perhaps what apple considered in their decision too), meanwhile if USA fabs are being built they can be up and running when the good times return

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USA can nobble a lot of the chinese chip makers by ensuring cad design software doesn't get exported, since like cars the software contribution is large (synopsys/cadence)
USA funding does seem to send wrong message to Taiwan - we are making alternative arrangements
 
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dLockers said:
His point is that the economy is a consumption based economy. The only reason those folk get a dollar is because of consumption.
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I agree, the world stood on its head with the removal of credit controls and import allowances. But globalisation is a good thing everyone was told. It will enrich everybody. So far it has not. The people making stuff in the third world are no richer than when they were farming paddy fields, they have more money but also more debt.
Consumerism does need to slow and a hiatus in supply probably helps that along.
 
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