The Emirates FA Cup Quarter Finals ** Spoilers ** [20th - 21st March 2021]

[vanandjuanunited]

The last game we lost was against SU in January. It is now nearly April. People forget that. If you took that freak result out of it you need to go even further back to November.

We are going nowhere yet since Ole has started we have got rid of most of the deadwood and improved our league position year on year.

He does need a trophy though but Arteta has two and look how badly he is doing.

Next season is crux for him though. If we are not constant then I will be surprised if he is still there after next summer.

I hope he's not there next season. Have you seen how we set up to play. We try and bore the opposition into mistakes. If we get a lead we start to chuck defenders on and then concede goals. We keep playing Martial despite his total lack of a performance for 99%of the season. I would rather have someone who at least tries get pitch time. When teams defend deep we have zero ideas on how to break them down. Our passing pressing etc are very poor. He's had long enough to work on tactics but we are clueless. Only reason we are so far up the table is the rest of the competing teams have been poor this year.

 

[manic111]

I don't think that happens in any club nowadays but I take your point.
Think of any of the premier league teams and tell me who has a Roy Keane or a Patrick Viera or a Graeme Souness. Those players don't exist anymore and neither do managers who encourage it. I actually think it mirrors society and that type of aggressive behaviour is just not acceptable.
That aside you do feel that this United side has gone as far as it can with the current personnel in both playing and coaching. Rodgers has done a much more credible job at at Leicester. Too many of the United players are not even technically good enough.

It's not necessarily the aggression, it's the standard setting. Some people and coaches attract others with similar high standards. Others don't have the drive it requires to demand 100% all the time. Pep for example clearly does, and by the way he deals with players who don't fit in I expect Klopp does too. I don't think Ole does - you can see it in interviews, and in performances. Some people thrive under that environment (eg Shaw), but I think that to be an absolute top manager you have to be ruthless and demanding. It doesn't need you to fly off the handle or be a ****, but it does require standard setting and consequences if not met.

 

[planty]

Some people and coaches attract others with similar high standards.

This would be my concern at united. Ole, Carrick, Fletcher... It's all a bit "jobs for the boys" isn't it?

 

[Alex h]

This would be my concern at united. Ole, Carrick, Fletcher... It's all a bit "jobs for the boys" isn't it?

Yeh it is and all inexperienced

 

[shipinabottle]

This would be my concern at united. Ole, Carrick, Fletcher... It's all a bit "jobs for the boys" isn't it?

It's a gravy train and Woodward is the Colonel.

Just like Liverpool, they'll rinse it dry on reputation. Genuinely don't think United will see another title until new owners come in with a different philosophy.

 

[adam cool dude]

It's a gravy train and Woodward is the Colonel.

Just like Liverpool, they'll rinse it dry on reputation. Genuinely don't think United will see another title until new owners come in with a different philosophy.

Lol let's be realistic. No one is going to see another title while City have their oil money. Let's get real here. Only way someone else is going to win is when teams like Liverpool have an in unbelievable season.

Like you said the only way it is going to change is with new owners.

 

[The Running Man]

I remember reading a really good interview with Rio Ferdinand in the FT (weirdly) a few years back. He was talking about his first training session at United. The first time he got the ball he decided to play it safe and passed sideways to the other centre back. Keane stopped the game, stormed over to him, and told him that they hadn't signed him to play easy safe football and to step up (I think with a few more swearies). You just don't get the impression that that happens at the club now.

Imagine what keane would have dome to Fred. Second or third time he has done this now.

 

[omnomnom]

Lol let's be realistic. No one is going to see another title while City have their oil money. Let's get real here. Only way someone else is going to win is when teams like Liverpool have an in unbelievable season.

Like you said the only way it is going to change is with new owners.

We are literally the title holders...it can and will happen. If we get a couple of players in the summer theres absolutely no reason why we cant challenge City next season.

 

[adam cool dude]

We are literally the title holders...it can and will happen. If we get a couple of players in the summer theres absolutely no reason why we cant challenge City next season.

Lmfao. With what money are Liverpool going to splash out with? I'm saving this post for September deadline day.

 

[omnomnom]

Lmfao. With what money are Liverpool going to splash out with? I'm saving this post for September deadline day.

We dont need to splash out on anyone...If we had a fully fit squad we wouldn't be where we are. Sell some deadwood and get some fresh legs in. Lets not forget we haven't spent a great deal in the last 5 years net wise.

To claim that only City will win another title because of their money when they arent even the current champions is a bizarre take.

 

[fez]

City are ultimately going to be hard to beat. Top squad, top manager, great team around the club who actually plan for the future and are the best at what they do AND they have endless money. Others teams will run them close and sometimes beat them to the title but yes, they will be the team to beat for a long time.

I can't speak for all the United fans on here but personally I don't care that much about trophies. Given the choice between watching turgid football every game for years but winning a few trophies vs watching exciting football and seeing my team progress but winning nothing I would take the latter every time.

 

[omnomnom]

City are ultimately going to be hard to beat. Top squad, top manager, great team around the club who actually plan for the future and are the best at what they do AND they have endless money. Others teams will run them close and sometimes beat them to the title but yes, they will be the team to beat for a long time.

I can't speak for all the United fans on here but personally I don't care that much about trophies. Given the choice between watching turgid football every game for years but winning a few trophies vs watching exciting football and seeing my team progress but winning nothing I would take the latter every time.

The end game is trophies though ultimately. The reason why City will likely win multiple trophies is they have two squads capable of getting top four. They could have a B team who would challenge for the title...having said that though they arent walking like we did last season.

 

[fez]

The end game is trophies though ultimately. The reason why City will likely win multiple trophies is they have two squads capable of getting top four. They could have a B team who would challenge for the title...having said that though they arent walking like we did last season.

Of course you want trophies but trophies are as much a product of your competition as your own quality. Liverpool would have walked the title by a country mile 2 years ago almost any other season. As it was, City were just slightly better and took the title.

The only trophies that really matter to the top teams are CL and PL. The others are just nice to have. Winning either of those is amazing but I understand how hard it is to do either so I am happy just to watch my team progress and play nice football. I can be frustrated with erratic displays as long as we are on a good trajectory. Currently I don't feel like we are. Currently I feel like we have a manager who has reached his ceiling and that ceiling is quite low. That ceiling is only going to get higher when we sign better players and we won't win the PL or CL just by buying better players. Ask PSG.

 

[Converge]

I can't speak for all the United fans on here but personally I don't care that much about trophies. Given the choice between watching turgid football every game for years but winning a few trophies vs watching exciting football and seeing my team progress but winning nothing I would take the latter every time.

Agreed. I would much rather see exciting football, where we lose to the better team on the day but it’s been entertaining, than the drivel that we’ve had for a long time. The current way we play... it’s basically chance based football with no coaching and is down to whether the players can conjure something up through rare moments of the stars aligning.

The rumours of Ole getting a new contract make me actually angry, as he’s not a manager, he’s an ex-player who only understands the ethos of the club whilst being a rudimentary manager. As I’ve said before, he should be a Director of Football or something. Not a ruddy manager.
Players do not develop under him or his ‘team’. It’s depressing to see Greenwood stagnating when someone like a Pep or a Klopp would have him on an entirely different level to what he is now I bet.

 

[manic111]

Lol let's be realistic. No one is going to see another title while City have their oil money. Let's get real here. Only way someone else is going to win is when teams like Liverpool have an in unbelievable season.

Like you said the only way it is going to change is with new owners.

Haven't United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Leicester all won the title since City got their oil money? They showed last year that they're flawed. They've not been exceptional for much of this season, at least until the turn of the year, but nobody else has taken advantage.

Also, United can't be far away from outspending them in the last few years? I've not looked at stats and may be wrong, but it's not as though United are paupers.

Edit: just had a look. Last 5 years, United's net spend is £498m, City's £568m, so only around 10% difference.

 

[omnomnom]

Of course you want trophies but trophies are as much a product of your competition as your own quality. Liverpool would have walked the title by a country mile 2 years ago almost any other season. As it was, City were just slightly better and took the title.

The only trophies that really matter to the top teams are CL and PL. The others are just nice to have. Winning either of those is amazing but I understand how hard it is to do either so I am happy just to watch my team progress and play nice football. I can be frustrated with erratic displays as long as we are on a good trajectory. Currently I don't feel like we are. Currently I feel like we have a manager who has reached his ceiling and that ceiling is quite low. That ceiling is only going to get higher when we sign better players and we won't win the PL or CL just by buying better players. Ask PSG.

Trophies can often mask over how well a team is playing so I do agree to some extent but ultimately that is big factor as to why we watch football. I dont think Ole is the answer...I never did to be fair. Can you imagine him inspiring a team at half time as an example?

Agreed. I would much rather see exciting football, where we lose to the better team on the day but it’s been entertaining, than the drivel that we’ve had for a long time. The current way we play... it’s basically chance based football with no coaching and is down to whether the players can conjure something up through rare moments of the stars aligning.

The rumours of Ole getting a new contract make me actually angry, as he’s not a manager, he’s an ex-player who only understands the ethos of the club whilst being a rudimentary manager. As I’ve said before, he should be a Director of Football or something. Not a ruddy manager.
Players do not develop under him or his ‘team’. It’s depressing to see Greenwood stagnating when someone like a Pep or a Klopp would have him on an entirely different level to what he is now I bet.

You cant ALWAYS blame the manager for players regressing. Some of it has to be on the player as well. Some of Uniteds players have improved but the ones you are suggesting havent...have they just hit their ceiling?

If they give Ole a new contract then that's ridiculous. Hilarious dont get me wrong but that's just bonkers. Why on earth would they do that?

 

[omnomnom]

Haven't United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Leicester all won the title since City got their oil money? They showed last year that they're flawed. They've not been exceptional for much of this season, at least until the turn of the year, but nobody else has taken advantage.

Also, United can't be far away from outspending them in the last few years? I've not looked at stats and may be wrong, but it's not as though United are paupers.

Edit: just had a look. Last 5 years, United's net spend is £498m, City's £568m, so only around 10% difference.

Whilst United have spent poorly you have to look at where City were when that money was spent. Without looking I imagine they were champions or there abouts?

 

[fez]

If they give Ole a new contract then that's ridiculous. Hilarious dont get me wrong but that's just bonkers. Why on earth would they do that?

Because he is cheap compared to top managers, doesn't make the players unhappy from what we can tell and he is currently doing the only thing they seem to care about which is get into the CL next season. The fanbase is very much split on Ole as well so that works in his favour too. Some think he just needs time and others think he has been out of his depth since day one and hasn't shown any signs of that changing. The problem is that its about 50/50, maybe 60/40 against him. When managers are fired at United there is usually massive pressure from the fanbase and almost unanimous calls for his sacking.

 

[adam cool dude]

Because he is cheap compared to top managers, doesn't make the players unhappy from what we can tell and he is currently doing the only thing they seem to care about which is get into the CL next season. The fanbase is very much split on Ole as well so that works in his favour too. Some think he just needs time and others think he has been out of his depth since day one and hasn't shown any signs of that changing. The problem is that its about 50/50, maybe 60/40 against him. When managers are fired at United there is usually massive pressure from the fanbase and almost unanimous calls for his sacking.

Who are we going to get to replace him? There are maybe 3 top tier managers. Ancelotti, Klopp and Guardiola. Everyone else is much of muchness. Nagelsmann got completely schooled by a injury laden Liverpool and beat 5-0 by us and he is meant to be hot property.

I would say Conte would be about the only manager that I think could work but his football is pretty boring. Bielsa would be pretty awesome although I don't think he could hack the media.

I personally say give Ole one more year and see after that. It is only his second full season after all.

 

[fez]

Who are we going to get to replace him?

I don't see Ole as anything close to a top tier manager so I would say that maybe 10+ teams in the PL have better managers than us.

I also don't think you can discount managers purely because they get beaten by teams with 10x the budget.

The biggest annoyance for me is that we are entirely reactionary. We don't have a plan. We get to the stage of firing and manager and say "whos available?".

You can say "there are only 3 top managers about" but thats rubbish IMO. There are only ever a very small number of available top managers at a given moment, much like if you tried to build a team of free agents. Good managers are available for small windows which is why you have to be decisive and have a long term plan.