Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (April Poll)

[helpimcrap]

Free trade with us in return.

Quite - the amount of cars Germany sells over here - VW, BMW, Porsche etc they'd be putting those companies at a loss as Britain is such a big buyer. Even other companies lie Seat, Renault, Peugeot might have an influence.

The EU is a dictatorship by unelected patties. I have never agreed with it and this is the first time we've had a chance in a lifetime to truly change.

Stay in, nothing changes except we become the whipping boys, leave and everything changes!

David Cameron doesn't want us to go -- moral high ground? He's setting up for his cushy job in the EU like Tony Blair.
Barack Obama doesn't want us to leave because we'll be at back of queue? So much for loyalty... World war 3 isn't far away if Donald Trump gets in....

The EU dictated who we can and can't trade with at what rates. Leave and we deal with the world...

I'm all for leaving. I'm excited about it.

 

[Mulder]

Snip about why TTIP is good

So your rebuttal to 2,000,000+ EU citizens who are against it and signed the petition, plus the hundreds of thousands who have marched against it in public with banners etc, plus the various literature online (such as that from the Telegraph I pasted) is............to basically dismiss all those people as wrong and paste four links from the EU's official website? Do you believe everything the EU tells you?

They don't have to create any. They'd exist by default.

Wrong. Trade would not suddenly stop on the day after a Brexit vote, it would continue under current terms until a new deal had been hammered out.

 

[[TW]Fox]

What about Norway?

Norway accepted free movement and is subject to various EU laws in return for its access to the single market? Why would want Norways deal if we voted out? We'd end up subject to things we'd have voted Leave for?! What would be the point?!

Come on this is BASIC stuff - at least read up on Norway and Switzerland if you are going to use them as examples.

Quite - the amount of cars Germany sells over here - VW, BMW, Porsche etc they'd be putting those companies at a loss as Britain is such a big buyer. Even other companies lie Seat, Renault, Peugeot might have an influence.

All of these firms sell millions of cars all over the world - tariffs are a fact of international trade. Tariffs are applied to German cars imported into say the USA.

They'll still be able to sell us all the cars they want. We'll just have to pay a bit more for them (And them for ours).

 

[Trifid]

Norway accepted free movement and is subject to various EU laws in return for its access to the single market? Why would want Norways deal if we voted out? We'd end up subject to things we'd have voted Leave for?! What would be the point?!

Come on this is BASIC stuff - at least read up on Norway and Switzerland if you are going to use them as examples.

I disagree, the Norway option is certainly an appealing alternative to full EU membership. The countries who have taken this option seem to agree with this too.

 

[Mulder]

Why would want Norways deal if we voted out?

Typos in your posts always make me chuckle after your "what is it with Brexit supporters and poor spelling/grammar"

 

[[TW]Fox]

Free movement is the major argument against the EU from the Brexit camp. How would Norway's situation be acceptable to them!?

 

[Mulder]

Free movement is the major argument against the EU from the Brexit camp. How would Norway's situation be acceptable to them!?

Did you know the Swiss voted in a referendum to curb EU migration? The EU has refused to negotiate on that until after Brexit, I wonder why that might be...

 

[[TW]Fox]

Typos in your posts always make me chuckle after your "what is it with Brexit supporters and poor spelling/grammar"

I deserve to be chastised about it then

 

[[TW]Fox]

Did you know the Swiss voted in a referendum to curb EU migration? The EU has refused to negotiate on that until after Brexit, I wonder why that might be...

Its almost as if the idea of picking and choosing which bits of the single market you like isn't really on offer..

 

[Trifid]

Free movement is the major argument against the EU from the Brexit camp. How would Norway's situation be acceptable to them!?

It is, but there are more arguments against the EU then just immigration. And if you look at EU Vs EFTA in isolation, the Norway options does look appealing on many levels.

 

[Tefal]

Free movement is the major argument against the EU from the Brexit camp. How would Norway's situation be acceptable to them!?

in norways situation if we had freemovement would we have to provide all benifits etc as we do now or could we limit them for non uk citizens

 

[[TW]Fox]

It is, but there are more arguments against the EU then just immigration. And if you look at EU Vs EFTA in isolation, the Norway options does look appealing on many levels.

To be honest I don't disagree to a certain extent. But I cannot see it happening, it goes against the cornerstone of the exit campaign. Only today we have Gove banging on about unchecked immigration which is exactly what Norway has...

 

[Mr Jack]

Under what circumstances? Eg. it'd be entirely reasonable if a country breached a contract with a company for them to compensate them, no?

No, it wouldn't. And, in any case, that's not what they're getting compensation for; they're getting compensation for things being changed in a way that they don't like. This limits the ability of countries to stand up to bad behaviour by corporations and anything that strengthens multi-nationals against governments should be viewed as harmful. We need to be taking global steps to bring multi-national corporations to heel and ensure globally better behaviour. Companies like Nestle, Trafigura and Phillip Morris Tobacco - and all oil companies - are some of the worst and most widely noted offenders but they are really just the tip of the iceburg.

What's wrong with arbitration? Why would court hearings be better?

Arbitration is an inferior form of justice and far less transparent. There's a reason we don't use arbitration to adjudicate our criminal and civil law.

But, in any case, binding arbitration is unlikely to form part of the TTIP deal.

 

[Hades]

in norways situation if we had freemovement would we have to provide all benifits etc as we do now or could we limit them for non uk citizens

This is a very good question and I am interested in the answer too.

 

[Mulder]

No, it wouldn't. And, in any case, that's not what they're getting compensation for; they're getting compensation for things being changed in a way that they don't like. This limits the ability of countries to stand up to bad behaviour by corporations and anything that strengthens multi-nationals against governments should be viewed as harmful. We need to be taking global steps to bring multi-national corporations to heel and ensure globally better behaviour. Companies like Nestle, Trafigura and Phillip Morris Tobacco - and all oil companies - are some of the worst and most widely noted offenders but they are really just the tip of the iceburg.



Arbitration is an inferior form of justice and far less transparent. There's a reason we don't use arbitration to adjudicate our criminal and civil law.

But, in any case, binding arbitration is unlikely to form part of the TTIP deal.

Nice post. I really hope TTIP fails/is amended to take all the very controversial stuff out, which is not in anyone's interest other than global corporates.

 

[Zethor]

So the 55 times times we've objected and been ignored aren't enough. Nor the fact we have less than 10% of MEP's in the Parliament (to be further reduced When Turkey, Albania etc join), nor qualified majority voting which means we're grossly under-represented. What about the fact law originates from the Commission, which is completely unelected.

You can point to us agreeing to a number of motions in a consensus system, where decisions are made in advance, but at heart the EU is undemocratic and doesn't represent the interests of its people. Another example of increasing nationalism, as if there weren't enough.

This not what I've asked. You need to show a concrete example, a piece of EU legislation that was passed since 2010 and was against Britain interests. Can you do that or not?

Page 17, top left graph, shows India and China growing the fastest in terms of UK services exports. I added the fact both countries are seeing a larger middle class, but I assume you're not disputing that.



Ernst & Young not good enough for you?

The E&Y analysis is using pre 2012 data and its future predictions are flat out wrong. Let's see what happened since 2012, shall we?

Asia service exports have grown by ~15%, China contributed with 15% growth, India 10%. Between 2013 and 2014 exports to China plunged by 25%!! They will be worse in the 2015 report due to the economic turmoils.

Meanwhile, the highest growth of service exports have been seen in US, Italy, Poland and Switzerland - between 25%-40%. 3 of those are in the EU/EFTA.

Compared to the services we sell to the EU/US, the sales to China or India are pennies.

If you plan to 'not sound rude' and tell someone they are clueless next time, make sure your claims are backed by data.

Chapter 09,Table 9.5:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nati...-30/unitedkingdombalanceofpaymentsthepinkbook

 

[SlyReaper]

You need to show a concrete example, a piece of EU legislation that was passed since 2010 and was against Britain interests.

I don't think he does. Even if every law imposed on us by the EU was the most fantastic rainbows-and-unicorns amazeballs thing in the world, it still violates a fundamental principle of democracy, because it came from people that nobody elected. Better to have a bad parliament than a good king, no?

 

[Skunkworks]

^It's a tactic they use when they're on the wrong side of a principle. Moses tried to do exactly the same thing on the issue of sovereignty. I argued that the EU can potentially override our laws thus reducing our sovereignty by definition. All I got in return was “name a law” ad infinitum.

 

[sityeuropa]

Anyone else agree that those wanting to remain are less likely to go to the polls to vote?

I feel they might take it for granted. Those who want change are more inclined to go down to vote.

 

[Zethor]

I don't think he does. Even if every law imposed on us by the EU was the most fantastic rainbows-and-unicorns amazeballs thing in the world, it still violates a fundamental principle of democracy, because it came from people that nobody elected. Better to have a bad parliament than a good king, no?

He claimed Britain has no influence and to prove thr point he claimed Britain gets outvoted. My request is perfectly reasonble, show the lack of British influence by showing the laws that were imposed during the past 5 years.