Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

[Mulder]

Fox's question still stands. If most immigration is from outside the EU, why are "leavers" focussing so much on EU immigration and ignoring the larger problem?

Because for non-EU migrants we can screen who comes in and who doesn't I.e we can welcome people that have a skill the country needs etc.

The current system discriminates in favour of the EU and is wholly unjust on non-EU migrants, particularly those from the commonwealth with whom we share a history.

 

[MichaelAwkward]

^Indeed. The requirements for non-EU immigrants with regards to minimum funds, health payments, etc. have increased in recent years - as a result of growing EU migration I suspect.

 

[Metallifux]

A little over half of our immigrants are from outwith the EU. Presumably they could do something about them right now if they wanted.

Those immigrants have to adhere to certain visa restrictions that 88% of EU immigrants would not meet. (Channel 4 news).

 

[awaybreaktoday]

Could you explain how moving from a free movement system to a controlled system will have no effect what so ever on immigration please

A controlled system lol, and please tell me what is a controlled system, please can someone tell me what this wonderful controlled system is that actually works?

 

[Tunney]

Because for non-EU migrants we can screen who comes in and who doesn't I.e we can welcome people that have a skill the country needs etc.

Who decides on which skills the country needs?

 

[estebanrey]

Fox's question still stands. If most immigration is from outside the EU, why are "leavers" focussing so much on EU immigration and ignoring the larger problem?

Depends how you look at it. In terms of absolute number then yes, immigration from outside the EU is slightly higher, however relative to how many 'could' come, the EU number is siginificantly higher....

EU - 180k from a pool of 438 million people
ROW - 200k from a pool of 6.4 billion people

So we have taken in just 0.003% of the rest of the world's population as immigrants but 0.04% of the EU's.

Put another way, in terms of relative flow, EU migrants are coming in at a rate of 13 times higher than non-EU migrants and therefore if EU citizens faced the same rules as everyone else you could expect that 200k figure to drop to just 15,000.

 

[scorza]

A controlled system lol, and please tell me what is a controlled system, please can someone tell me what this wonderful controlled system is that actually works?

An example of one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Australia#Current_government_immigration_programs

 

[awaybreaktoday]

An example of one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Australia#Current_government_immigration_programs

Its not working well for Australia.....

 

[awaybreaktoday]

Depends how you look at it. In terms of absolute number then yes, immigration from outside the EU is slightly higher, however relative to how many 'could' come, the EU number is siginificantly higher....

EU - 180k from a pool of 438 million people
ROW - 200k from a pool of 6.4 billion people

So we have taken in just 0.003% of the rest of the world's population as immigrants but 0.04% of the EU's.

Put another way, in terms of relative flow, EU migrants are coming in at a rate of 13 times higher than non-EU migrants and therefore if EU citizens faced the same rules as everyone else you could expect that 200k figure to drop to just 15,000.

But it would not.

 

[scorza]

Its not working well for Australia.....

Apart from letting Evangelion in, how is it not working well for Australia?

 

[RaohNS]

EU - 180k from a pool of 438 million people
ROW - 200k from a pool of 6.4 billion people
.

You are looking at it the wrong way.

How does 380,000 per year fit into the UK population? Forget rest of the world when it comes to immigration. We are talking about an impact on the lives of British People.

380,000 is approximately 150,000 more people than live in the city I live. Play the long game with numbers too factoring in several things. In 10years you would have 10million more people. 1million people a year. How can services hope to cope with that? Or was the coping mechanism of importing people to deal with all the people coming in the plan of the government all along?

 

[Metallifux]

Who decides on which skills the country needs?

Employers?

 

[Roar87]

A controlled system lol, and please tell me what is a controlled system, please can someone tell me what this wonderful controlled system is that actually works?

It's one where you let people in based on their skills and what they bring to the country, and turn away those that we don't need. It's the one that every other 1st world country that isn't part of the EU uses.

 

[Tunney]

Employers?

That would be ideal but it's rarely what happens in the real world. US tech companies have a tough time finding the right people because of their visa system.

Someone has to make a decision on whether the employer's needs are genuine.

 

[Six6siX]

You are looking at it the wrong way.

How does 380,000 per year fit into the UK population? Forget rest of the world when it comes to immigration. We are talking about an impact on the lives of British People.

380,000 is approximately 150,000 more people than live in the city I live. Play the long game with numbers too factoring in several things. In 10years you would have 10million more people. 1million people a year. How can services hope to cope with that? Or was the coping mechanism of importing people to deal with all the people coming in the plan of the government all along?

People leave the UK too you know so the overall increase is likely to be a fair bit less than that.

How have you got from 380,000 a year to nearly triple that at 1 million people a year?

A significant majority of immigrants actually work in industries that benefit public services and all of them that do come to work, are in the same economy and thus contribute to tax, NI etc. They aren't all a drain on the system as you seem to be suggesting.

 

[RaohNS]

Not to mention I hasten to add the dilution or altogether annihilation of base culture

 

[awaybreaktoday]

Apart from letting Evangelion in, how is it not working well for Australia?

Australia's immigration system is actually designed to increase the country's population, don't you already know that? scaling that up to the UK would actually see immigration in Britain rising to nearly over 1.5 million.

 

[lokiss]

PS: Temporary workers. Are our kids really that lazy? I remember picking blackberries as a kid (teenager) for sod all.

My mother made me think a little bit about that the other year.

Every year i do this pilgrimage to a pick your own strawberry farm, 30 more or so years since i was young. All i see is the wonder of families having picnicks on the grass after they've finished, the kids being driven around the fields on the back of a trailer, generaly just being around people that'll throw you a smile, and be 100% courteous.

She killed me stone dead, when she said.... yes, but he saves a fortune on labour costs on picking that fruit. I never saw it like that, all i could see was a good thing the family had done for years. hard and cynical says he makes a killing, more that any other grower would getting full value for his product without labour/transport, and a supermarket creaming 70 odd percent.

Kinda wish she hadn't had said that... Anyhow, might have been late and alcohol induced, but you make a lot of sense. If only people like yourself had an influence on things.

 

[awaybreaktoday]

It's one where you let people in based on their skills and what they bring to the country, and turn away those that we don't need. It's the one that every other 1st world country that isn't part of the EU uses.

You seriously have no idea what a skill based system is designed to do?

 

[Vipa66]

Bear in mind also that the non-European immigrant number is bolstered significantly by non EU refugees who we must take as part of being in the club. This includes huge numbers of Syrians who's sole objective is to get to the UK rather than settle in the first safe country they get to.

Leaving the EU will also mean WE CAN DECIDE how many political and war refugees we take inin, not have a number dictated to us by brussels