Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 794 45.1%
  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 965 54.9%

  • Total voters
    1,759
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As I've written before, it's easy it be alarmed by this concept and completely miss the bigger picture.

Tens of millions a year you say? The UK current account deficit is over 32 billion pounds a year, 32,000 million, several thousand times higher than the capital outflow from migrant workers.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/current-account
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...current-account-deficit-the-forgotten-deficit

Money leaving due to the activities of migrant workers is a drop in the ocean compared to other structural problems in the economy.

In any case, all the evidence suggests migrant workers have a net benefit to the economy.

I said at the very least.

Big business are the ones evading by far the largest portion in "take". I think I said in the last thread that while £120bn may be dodged in tax, my belief is that amount is not even close and estimate it to be much higher, perhaps h £500bn (yes £0.5tr). The panama papers should make us all question the lower figures.

Migrant workers having a net benefit has already been discussed and the data extrapolation doesn't take fact of other circumstances. I forget who the people arguing it out were but its here.

Phew at least this thread is going away from trade. :D
 
What's your point? You asked for an example of a controlled immigration system - I gave you one. You said it's not working well for Australia but have failed to explain how it is not working well for Australia. Are you disputing that immigration can be controlled?

My point, what ever system you put in place in the long run immigration will always increase, this is the case for every system around the world.
 
I'm swaying towards leave now but the majority of people I know are firmly in the remain camp. I predict a 52% stay 48% leave in the actual polls.
 
Of course they do, in a way adding to the problem in some respects. I mentioned several factors. Migrant families particularly non-EU have much higher birthrates and can apply to have family brought over.

Non-EU?

I know they do but a lot do not and equally the British public suffer. I'll give you one such account. My local Hospital be brought in 2500 EU non-qualified nurses and covered all relocation and other costs. Each of them cost circa £25,000 in expenses in the first year. Then we have announced that the Nurses bursary is going to go? I think British people are quite rightly and justified in being peed off.

I can provide directly conflicting anecdotal evidence. I can understand being peed off with the scenario you describe but it seems clear to me that the issue isn't with the people it is that the bursary was cut (unrelated?) and when considered in conjunction with that, it's easy to point fingers and say "look at the money that was spent on immigrants and now the bursary is cut". That shouldn't be a reason to suddenly decide that immigration is the problem.

I know a huge number of EU immigrants working in highly professional fields - IT, engineering, manufacturing, transport, consultancy etc and they all contribute to NI and tax just like everyone else in the UK. I also know a large number of immigrants are employed in non-professional industries, retail, service industries, catering etc - they also pay their taxes and NI contributions.

In fact, in the wider picture and given the general work ethic of a lot of immigrants, I would go so far as to say that the proportion that do not contribute to society is lower than the proportion native people who are a drain on the system. In either case, they are both a significant minority in the grand scale of things.

You also forget that a lot of migrant workers send money back home that will not benefit the country. If you know migrant workers which I am sure you will say you do. You will know they send hundreds of pounds home each month.

One of my friends from Iraq sent back over to his brother in several lump sums to the tune of £35,000. He'd made several payments like this previously in the 10years he had been here. I know a fair few Polish blokes who rent here (2 families living in one house) who manage between them to send £1,000 a week back. Cheap area to rent, work industry type jobs (that have seen a salary contraction by the way despite business picking up). There would be tens of thousands of people doing exactly the same. You are talking tens of millions yearly at the very least gone from the UK.

They do pay tax yes. They may pay £200 a month in tax but are probably sending twice that out of the UK.

So? It's money they earned after providing a service to an industry and doing a job, paying their fair taxes and NI - are you saying they can't do what they want with it? What about British expats sending money back to Britain working tax free in the middle east? Should they not be allowed to do the same?

Will you be saying that the produce or products we buy should only be natively produced and that buying things from overseas is bad? Should we stop trading with other countries because after all, it's money gone from the UK...

edit: also, the figures in question are trivial when looked at in relation to the overall economy.
 
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My point, what ever system you put in place in the long run immigration will always increase, this is the case for every system around the world.

Yeah but it'll be better than what we have now, in theory at this point all of Europe could up sticks and move here next year should they so decide
 
My point, what ever system you put in place in the long run immigration will always increase, this is the case for every system around the world.

Well that's not true, there are plenty of countries with a negative net migration rate and it would seem logical that globally, the number of immigrants must equal the number of emigrants.

Anyway, no-one has said we don't want any immigration, just a reduction on the current numbers. I don't see why that would beyond the capability of the people on this island to achieve that.
 
Well that's not true, there are plenty of countries with a negative net migration rate and it would seem logical that globally, the number of immigrants must equal the number of emigrants.

Anyway, no-one has said we don't want any immigration, just a reduction on the current numbers. I don't see why that would beyond the capability of the people on this island to achieve that.

We don't need to leave the EU to achieve that.
 
So? It's money they earned after providing a service to an industry and doing a job, paying their fair taxes and NI - are you saying they can't do what they want with it? What about British expats sending money back to Britain working tax free in the middle east? Should they not be allowed to do the same?

It's not entirely the same though because in the Middle East you'll largely be paying very little tax, but in return you'll be getting very little in the way of public services, where as here we have a high level of public services which have to be paid for through tax. This won't happen if people are sending a lot of money out of the country because we'll be missing out on the money we would've got from VAT, etc
 
It's not entirely the same though because in the Middle East you'll largely be paying very little tax, but in return you'll be getting very little in the way of public services, where as here we have a high level of public services which have to be paid for through tax. This won't happen if people are sending a lot of money out of the country because we'll be missing out on the money we would've got from VAT, etc

Are the kinds of people sending back £1000+ a month using many of our public services? Are they elderly or at school or big library users?
 
Are the kinds of people sending back £1000+ a month using many of our public services? Are they elderly or at school or big library users?

I would guess most of them would be young people in their early 20's who are at the right age to start familys, at that point they'll be using the NHS and schooling system, Libarys don't cost an awful lot
 
I would guess most of them would be young people in their early 20's who are at the right age to start familys, at that point they'll be using the NHS and schooling system, Libarys don't cost an awful lot

And once they have families, do you think that they'll be sending £1,000+ a month home? No, they'll be spending that money on nappies, clothes and all of the other things that a young family need.
 
Tell me guys, who do you think is going to make these better decisions about the UK and it's on going status if we leave the EU. Does anyone really think our 650 elected members will agree on anything sensible or are even capable of agreeing. UKIP is biased and could become EngIP, the labour party is very quiet over Europe, the Tories are about 50/50 as are the others I suspect. There will not be a pro UK/Eng group around and the bickering will just continue in parliament.
After Brexit, Scotland could well leave the UK and (re)join the EU, Wales would probably do the same, Ireland is already in the EU and Northern Ireland could descend into trouble again.
How on earth does anyone think England can stand alone, what do we have? A finance industry of global banks that could probably leave and move to Europe. A stock market that is already making plans to exist in Germany. A car industry supported by Japan so they can get cars into Europe. A power industry mainly owned by European state funded power companies.
BTW who is going to fund all the extra resources to manage our borders and remove all the extra people in the UK.
One final comment about scaremongering, aren't both sides just doing that? How can anyone make a sensible decision on in or out if all we get are scare stories or hypothetical predictions of doom and gloom.
Andi.
 
And once they have families, do you think that they'll be sending £1,000+ a month home? No, they'll be spending that money on nappies, clothes and all of the other things that a young family need.

... and once they become old and sick, they'll cease to be a net benefit to the economy and be a net drain. Future liabilities always seems to get ignored in the endless immigration debate.
 
It's not entirely the same though because in the Middle East you'll largely be paying very little tax, but in return you'll be getting very little in the way of public services, where as here we have a high level of public services which have to be paid for through tax. This won't happen if people are sending a lot of money out of the country because we'll be missing out on the money we would've got from VAT, etc

And generally, people (including immigrants), pay their taxes. Income tax, NI, fuel duty, VAT where applicable, VED where applicable etc etc. They can't avoid that.

Where else would public services see a financial benefit that they aren't contributing to because they're sending money out of the country?

In 2008-2009 VAT was calculated at approx ~£1300 per person. http://www.ifs.org.uk/budgets/gb2009/09chap10.pdf

Lets call it £1500 in today's world as a rough figure. Generally speaking a proportion of that spending by people sending money abroad could be accounted for in fuel, general purchases, leisure, going out etc. Lets say they don't spend £500 of that £1500 average. I'm sure there are plenty of native Brits who are in the same position and again, the figures are negligible in the economy.
 
... and once they become old and sick, they'll cease to be a net benefit to the economy and be a net drain. Future liabilities always seems to get ignored in the endless immigration debate.

What do you think happens to British people when they get old? They become magically self sufficient?
 
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