Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)

[George Hincapie]

Hmm, I think you'll have to revisit your UK 60's & 70's history if you think we managed the country and economy during that period perfectly well

And the world is a totally different place now then it was 50 years ago, so it's not unreasonable to say it is an unkown about how things will pan out and if they will be better, worse or the same for us.

Economics is cyclical; EU integration has done nothing to change that

It is unreasonable and disingenuous to boot.

 

[Random Guy]

Nobody is really making it clear exactly what will be at risk if we leave the EU, I mean, we can still trade with any country we like...? The German car manufacturers for example aren't going to suddenly ignore a market of 60 million people plus...

As it stands I see a lot of money being ploughed into the EU, with limited benefit (admittedly I haven't read up on this in great detail).

The whole thing is a leap into the unknown, nobody seems to be able to accurately predict what's going to happen either way, just speculation.

I'd compare the situation to Norway, who are very happy outside of the EU and won't even consider joining, but they're oil rich and have a much smaller population than the UK. For them, joining would be foolish.

Just responding to the question in bold above:

Are you sure? Did a bunch of business leaders not just speak out about it a few days ago?

I think protectionism on the EU-side is a risk if nothing else. Better question is what kind of market access do we have to the EU today (gross inputs and outputs) and what would that look like if GB was no longer in the EU (increased costs through taxation etc.).

 

[a1ex2001]

If we vote to stay in the EU, then I'm 100% sure that there will never be another opportunity for Britain to quit the EU.
.?

That's as stupid as saying if we vote to leave we will never get another chance to join!

Sadly the whole debate from both sides is going to be based on a combination made up numbers, fear and xenophobia! Pseronally I'm voting in bacuase I can't stand to see Michael Gove and Boris win the gamble for personal success that they are happy to play with our contries future with little interest in the result as long as it serves their needs (Oh yes for clarity I do despise Gove)

 

[George Hincapie]

Nobody is really making it clear exactly what will be at risk if we leave the EU, I mean, we can still trade with any country we like...? The German car manufacturers for example aren't going to suddenly ignore a market of 60 million people plus...

As it stands I see a lot of money being ploughed into the EU, with limited benefit (admittedly I haven't read up on this in great detail).

The whole thing is a leap into the unknown, nobody seems to be able to accurately predict what's going to happen either way, just speculation.

I'd compare the situation to Norway, who are very happy outside of the EU and won't even consider joining, but they're oil rich and have a much smaller population than the UK. For them, joining would be foolish.

They can't, because the reality is that business will carry on as usual so it's really just scaremongering.

When I started trying to decide my position and how I might vote I found I was fairly neutral, but there's some right **** being posted by those in favour of staying in which really isn't endearing.

 

[deuse]

Just responding to the question in bold above:

Are you sure? Did a bunch of business leaders not just speak out about it a few days ago?.

You mean the 3rd of them signed but 2/3rds never

 

[Tunney]

I'd compare the situation to Norway, who are very happy outside of the EU and won't even consider joining, but they're oil rich and have a much smaller population than the UK. For them, joining would be foolish.

Norway pays €340m a year into the EU budget for access to the EU's internal market. Given the UK's size, it's estimated that we'd have to pay £2.5bn-£4bn a year.

We'd have no say in EU matters, still have to harmonise our regulations and still pay a large chunk of money.

 

[George Hincapie]

If we vote to stay in the EU, then I'm 100% sure that there will never be another opportunity for Britain to quit the EU.

Why?

The Government could hold another referendum and we could just leave. Practically, what are the EU going to do? We are a nuclear super power and could **** up every country in Europe, even with a decimated military. Economic sanctions? Err...no. We are far too big a market.

The reality is if we decided to leave, then no-one could stop us. We'd just do it.

 

[deuse]

Norway pays €340m a year into the EU budget for access to the EU's internal market. Given the UK's size, it's estimated that we'd have to pay £2.5bn-£4bn a year.

We'd have no say in EU matters, still have to harmonise our regulations and still pay a large chunk of money.

I'll ask you how much should we charge Germany for importing £16bn worth of cars each year?

How much should we charge France for importing £1.3bn worth of wine to the UK?

How much should we charge Italy for importing £500mil+ worth of goods?

And spain sends us £720 mil of fruit each year. Got a charge for that?

There won't be any charges as the EU needs us.

 

[Freakbro]

Norway pays €340m a year into the EU budget for access to the EU's internal market. Given the UK's size, it's estimated that we'd have to pay £2.5bn-£4bn a year.

We'd have no say in EU matters, still have to harmonise our regulations and still pay a large chunk of money.

And Norway is still in the Schengen agreement and has open migration borders with the EU.

On the news this morning I think they said 16% of Norways population are migrants

 

[scorza]

That's as stupid as saying if we vote to leave we will never get another chance to join!

It's a prediction, as Freakbro has now admitted; we're voting on whether we want to be part of the United States of Europe. The other country with "United States" in its name is of course the USA, who don't really like states trying to leave their union - last time some tried it there was a civil war.

Sadly the whole debate from both sides is going to be based on a combination made up numbers, fear and xenophobia! Pseronally I'm voting in bacuase I can't stand to see Michael Gove and Boris win the gamble for personal success that they are happy to play with our contries future with little interest in the result as long as it serves their needs (Oh yes for clarity I do despise Gove)

While I of course respect your decision to vote to stay, I will point out that in a few years time Gove and Boris won't be around in UK politics anymore, however the EU will be!

 

[Nitefly]

Michael Gove appears to be spouting nonsense that the deal will not be legally binding. It's akin to stating that the courts of this country are able to trump parliamentary supremacy. In other words, yes, the ECJ probably does have that discretion (in respect of the things the ECJ would consider, I invite you all to read Jackson v A-G from our courts which deals with notions of supremacy.... It's long - edit: there's actually a surprisingly decent summary on Wikipedia!), but only if there is something completely perverse and I cannot see any grounded assertion that the deal is perverse, especially when it is, you know, a deal.

In other words, it is more correct to say that the deal is at the potential scrutiny of the ECJ, but as to why and when that will happen... No specifics have been put forward whatsoever, just a puff of hot air without founding, from what I've read.

 

[Freakbro]

It's a prediction, as Freakbro has now admitted; we're voting on whether we want to be part of the United States of Europe.

I haven't admitted anything of the sort!

I just gave as much a hyperbolic answer as you usually do and was stating my opinion/wishes....not facts

 

[Trifid]

Norway pays €340m a year into the EU budget for access to the EU's internal market. Given the UK's size, it's estimated that we'd have to pay £2.5bn-£4bn a year.

We'd have no say in EU matters, still have to harmonise our regulations and still pay a large chunk of money.

Just less legislation.

The EEA agreement grants Norway access to the EU's internal market. From the 23,000 EU laws currently in force,[2] the EEA has incorporated around 5,000 (in force)[3] meaning that Norway is subject to roughly 21% of EU law. This arrangement facilitates free movement of goods, capital, services and people between the EU and EFTA members including Norway.

Norway gets more out of it then just the common market, it also includes for example their access to contribute to common science research programmes. They are also excluded from the Common Fisheries Policy of the EU.

 

[deuse]

Michael Gove appears to be spouting nonsense that the deal will not be legally binding. It's akin to stating that the courts of this country are able to trump parliamentary supremacy. In other words, yes, the ECJ probably does have that discretion (in respect of the things the ECJ would consider, I invite you all to read Jackson v A-G from our courts which deals with notions of supremacy.... It's long - edit: there's actually a surprisingly decent summary on Wikipedia!), but only if there is something completely perverse and I cannot see any grounded assertion that the deal is perverse, especially when it is, you know, a deal.

In other words, it is more correct to say that the deal is at the potential scrutiny of the ECJ, but as to why and when that will happen... No specifics have been put forward whatsoever, just a puff of hot air without founding, from what I've read.

Already posted

None of Cameron's deals has passed the European Court of Justice and won't be.
And don't forget it stands above the nation states.

 

[a1ex2001]

If national soveriegnty is a weak reason to base a referendum on I'm really interested to know what a strong reason is.

It's a meaningless phrase in this day and age, the last time our national sovereignty was threatened was in the 40's

 

[Robbo]

Just responding to the question in bold above:

Are you sure? Did a bunch of business leaders not just speak out about it a few days ago?

I think protectionism on the EU-side is a risk if nothing else. Better question is what kind of market access do we have to the EU today (gross inputs and outputs) and what would that look like if GB was no longer in the EU (increased costs through taxation etc.).

People are of course putting forward speculative theories about such things. I think one third of the largest businesses signed some sort of document recommending we stay in, but of course that means that two thirds of them didn't...

The point is, if we leave the EU, it'll significantly weaken their position and the Euro. The poor countries won't be going anywhere and the likes of France and Germany will still have to prop them up, it'll drain them.

Norway pays €340m a year into the EU budget for access to the EU's internal market. Given the UK's size, it's estimated that we'd have to pay £2.5bn-£4bn a year.

We'd have no say in EU matters, still have to harmonise our regulations and still pay a large chunk of money.

Interesting, but it's still an estimation. We could recoup this by taxing countries wanting to sell goods in the UK, a balance could be struck. Don't we pay a fortune every single day just because we're not in the Euro?! I find that sort of thing quite baffling.

 

[Insanties_birth]

The way I see it we have a simple choice:

1. Stay in the EU with a known set of likes dislikes and finances
2. Leave the EU to a total unknown, nobody can tell us anything about what life will be like afterwards except 'it will be better because of national sovereignty'

Which seems like a pretty weak basis for such an important decision so I don't see how anyone can vote for anything other than the status quo.

Are you really that dumb?

It's not possible for them to say exactly how it will be because they will simply have to negotiate new terms and negotiate new trade and whatnot but it's not like we're jumping into some deep chasm. Hell, the first 2 years we'll just be in a seperation period where we can renegotiate with EU while maintaining current trade anyway. There's no exact image of what we'll do but I imagine it involves standard trade and service as we are doing right now, maybe with a few more tarriffs from the EU or maybe they'd end up signing up to the open market and having freedom of movement and the same trade deals but with a few less EU laws while still having to adhere to the majority. Either way it's not some mystical chasm of death, it's a bleeding big ship the UK so I it'll just pilot a standard course and trade a little differently. It's not as big as you've been fooled to believe as all the EU countries won't suddenly stop trading with us as global economies don't work that way so we'll get trade and the big ship will keep sailing. It's more a slightly rocky period (a few more tarriffs / fees on EU trade alone so doesn't effect any trade with other countries) and then we'll have to renegotiate. They can't tell you word for word what it will look like because renegotiations don't work that way just like even after the DC's efforts we can't guarantee what our relationship in the EU will be because they will be voting on which parts of the referendum they keep or chop up.

 

[Outcast]

Just got pointed to an interesting article which I think is worthy of a share here

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/06/john-king-left-wing-case-leaving-eu

 

[chris_h]

No one voted for us to be a part of a politcal union. This is our voice finally being heard democratically.

some people are missing this valuable point

 

[chris_h]

We're part of a representative democracy.

We never voted to be a part of this 'democracy'.

We need our say.