So much ignorance... Everything you've said is happening while the UK is in the EU. Competive services, own laws, own trade deals, own immigration policy. None of those things are done through EU 'guidance'.
Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)
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So much ignorance... Everything you've said is happening while the UK is in the EU. Competive services, own laws, own trade deals, own immigration policy. None of those things are done through EU 'guidance'.
You're making the mistake of thinking Con/Ukip = In and Lab/Lib = Out
It's far from that simple, quite a lot of lib and lab politicians are eurosceptic
Watch that link. Looks like it is on the cards, the UK representative wasn't even prompted to offer it.
I've yet to vote as it's a much more complicated question than many realise. Economically, I think I'd rather stay in. Politically, well, the EU has acted disgracefully over the migrant crisis, we were doing the right thing before the boats started arriving by providing aid to the camps surround the areas in need.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...pro-eu-campaign-on-social-benefits-to-workers
A total of 213 of Labour’s 231 MPs have signed up to the campaign, including the entire shadow cabinet. Johnson has also written to constituency Labour parties inviting them to join.
Soldato
I don't understand he implications of each option well enough to accurately decide yet. I could do with a pros and cons list of each to mull over.
My gut feeling is out, but i say that purely on the ground that i feel we should be free to define the rules/policies that affect this country, hopefully for the betterment of this countries citizens, rather than having to kneel to the rest of the EU's wishes.
Anyone got short guide to the affect both decisions will have?
My gut feeling is out, but i say that purely on the ground that i feel we should be free to define the rules/policies that affect this country, hopefully for the betterment of this countries citizens, rather than having to kneel to the rest of the EU's wishes.
Anyone got short guide to the affect both decisions will have?
In = status quo. Proven financial benefits for the country, some pressure from Poles/Romanians/etc. in the menial jobs sectors.
Out = Unpredictable financial consequences, more Indian/Pakistani/African immigrants, end of freedom of movement in the EU for Brits, barriers for British companies when expanding in the second largest economy on the planet.
Caporegime
If you think this is a pro-EU forum I can only presume you've never been to an actually pro-EU forum.
Most probably the biggest problem going into the referendum, you're by no means alone.
The media spin certainly doesn't help matters, nor do some of the paper headlines.
LOL... Really? Certainly a very, very short guide.
Case in point!
Caporegime
Same as last time, leave.
As well as staying on the road to a United Sates of Europe, you're also staying on a much longer road into the unknown. One that in many years to come people will look back and wish they had taken the unknown in opting out when they had the chance at the referendum.
Take the unknown now, one where we have control from that point on.
Soldato
I'm in the same boat as you. Been here for over 15 years, even before my native country joined EU and I needed VISA to come here. Had to go to embassy and go through 2 interviews.
I'm all for people to chose what they want but what gets me the most about this referendum is that people that don't know enough about it (and you can already see it in this thread that people don't know enough to make a proper decision) will be voting on this subject.
Though it's a bit annoying that someone that could barely walk when I started working in this country will be making decision that can have potentially huge impact on me, just because they happened to be born here.
On other hand it's a catch 22, if it was restricted to say 30+ years old to vote, the decision will mostly affect the younger generation.
Ohh well I guess I can always pay a British girl to marry me.
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What makes you think Britain will lose control later on? Why not stay out of United States of Europe when the entity is created?
Soldato
As much as I think it is great to have neighbours we can trade with and allow for freedom and 'a good life' I think the EU has burned its ties due to the lack of action on any major note especially with the mess of the migrant/refugee crisis. We'd be able to get our identity back as a country if we leave and enforce sensible laws. It's not common sense that if you live in Great Britain you should speak the language - that's not rocket science. People in Europe would refuse to speak or serve me if I didn't at least attempt the language.
If we stay in the EU we should go all in or not at all. Be Brussels whipping boys.
ps I am not in the slightest bit racist or any other kind of 'ist' except for a realist.
If we stay in the EU we should go all in or not at all. Be Brussels whipping boys.
ps I am not in the slightest bit racist or any other kind of 'ist' except for a realist.
Soldato
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In, and not just because I like 'Ode to Joy'
Outers don't have a strong economic case, and much of their proposition hinges on possible future negotiations with Europe and beyond, including immigration -- the pet peeve of some forum members here.
For example: both EEA and EFTA (special rules applying to 3 Nordic states + Lichtenstein) require the freedom of movement clause for work and travel (under EFTA you keep exclusive citizenship control, if memory serves me right); and as somebody pointed out already, you cannot modify rules of either association grouping from outside the EU's political structures. Special deal because everyone loves us so much? Dream on!
I'd also loathe to sleepwalk into losing Scotland in any knock-on IndyRef 2.0 event. The SNP haven't given up on their ultimate goal, and in case of Brexit they would have an overwhelming boon to their argument. In case you haven't noticed, all Unionist parties have been decimated north of the border last year!
Outers don't have a strong economic case, and much of their proposition hinges on possible future negotiations with Europe and beyond, including immigration -- the pet peeve of some forum members here.
For example: both EEA and EFTA (special rules applying to 3 Nordic states + Lichtenstein) require the freedom of movement clause for work and travel (under EFTA you keep exclusive citizenship control, if memory serves me right); and as somebody pointed out already, you cannot modify rules of either association grouping from outside the EU's political structures. Special deal because everyone loves us so much? Dream on!
I'd also loathe to sleepwalk into losing Scotland in any knock-on IndyRef 2.0 event. The SNP haven't given up on their ultimate goal, and in case of Brexit they would have an overwhelming boon to their argument. In case you haven't noticed, all Unionist parties have been decimated north of the border last year!
Because I have NO faith in that happening.
Just looking at how embroiled we are with what we currently have.
We weren't given a chance to vote when it came to the changes brought in by the Maastricht Treaty. Hence, I haven't faith in any of the politicians putting the country or its populations interests first.
Some more.
In.
+/- Transatlantic trade agreement
+/- has an aim of becoming a United States of Europe
+ has better consumer rights and is usually on the side of the people rather then business, and is so large that business has to fall in line
Out.
+ Undemocratic, it would fail its own criteria of joining the EU by not being a democracy
+ We were led into it under false pretences.
+ Our lack of commitment to the project is felt across the EU
+ As a result we have very little influence
+ I suspect the EU would be happier if we left.
+ I think we will both be happier if we rejoined in 20 - 40 years time ready to fully commit (if we wanted to)
+ Is going to expand and likely to have borders with Russia and the middle east in the not too distant future
+ Has been flooded with migrants that were invited by a few EU members but then want to spread around including Britain
+ Those migrants will hold EU passports in 5 years time and will gain the right to free movement
+ It has got too big too fast
+ Sometimes the European Court on Human Rights has overruled our courts and what the people of Britain want
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