Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)

[RaohNS]

Maybe just because you believe something to be fact, it doesn't make it so?



But those FACTS that RaohnS posted, that he heard on FB, bear little resemblance to the newspaper links you have posted

So was it 20+ men storming the school to attack select kids and injure 4 teachers, hospitalising 2 or was it a fight between 6-12 schoolchildren where 1 teacher got mildy injured intervening

Like there's never been children fighting in school before we had immigration...

Oh and that Breitbart piece is just lol worthy.....

Obviously to my part discussed in your quote... That's why I said police and press cover up. If it was not the case why did the PC I spoke to just remain quiet? She knew there was a cover up and couldn't rebuff this.

The school had initials of SWS.

I could point to another set example: A school in Derby had a talk about honour crimes (this actually featured as a documentary on tv). Because of the nature of the talk and a woman who was from "the community" where most honour crime comes fr ppl m the school had to write to inform their parents this was happening. I know for a FACT that there was a significant number of Asian (yes Muslim) children whose parents called in that day to say they were ill. It would have been prudent to have put that fact in to show how pernicious honour based crime is in some communities.

To clarify some things regarding the incident on FB concerning the earlier school. Yes some rumours were exactly that... The incident however was not. Why was West Street shut if it didn't happen? Why did the Police just 2wks ago say "nah can't do anything" when 200+ people came out blocking the street peed off to the highest heaven about what had happened?

 

[RDM]

I'm not a teacher and live in West Sussex and I heard about it

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/643326/Slovakian-children-English-bowOfsted-school

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cops-called-brawl-school-between-7310787

http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...-after-migrant-kids-attack-uk-schoolchildren/

I'm sure that teaching unions normally are quite vociferous about injuries to teachers but at the same time there seems to be a lot of pressure to keep this incident quiet.

Freakbro pretty much covered it in his post but the news reports bear no resemblance to the incident suggested. A playground fight is, unfortunately, fairly common, hospitalised teachers not so common.

 

[RDM]

Obviously to my part discussed in your quote... That's why I said police and press cover up. If it was not the case why did the PC I spoke to just remain quiet? She knew there was a cover up and couldn't rebuff this.

Why would our predominately anti-EU press cover up what would be a goldmine story for them?

 

[RaohNS]

Doesn't serve the multicultural EUtopia we aspire and profess to being.

On the Rotherham side also... Why was it not reported that local councillors went and gave character testimony on the case? Just saying

 

[Tunney]

And great, he's a QC, but that doesn't make him an expert on everything. He probably still has a bonkers good knowledge of occupational safety and health law, but how much does he know about the VCLT and its impact?

Dominic Grieve was attorney general and a very good one at that. He's always taken an incredibly keen interest in European matters. I doubt any serving politician knows more about how leaving the EU would affect Britons from a legal standpoint.

 

[balky12]

Anyone watch 'Greece with Simon Reeve' last night?

Now they weren't without their faults but the EU ****** that country over big time. They might be a work shy country but they getting by just fine before the EU showed up.

Germany benefitted massively (Building contracts, defence contracts), then come the bailout... all member states contributed...

 

[chris_h]

It is interesting to see Tony Blair and Gordon Brown are now sticking their noses in the In campaign. Makes sense since they between them signed over a large chunk of our freedoms over the course of their time in number 10.

The way I see it, the poster boys for the 'in' clan are business leaders who rely on cheap imported labour and politicians whos strings are pulled from the unelected in Brussels.

Who in their right mind would side with these people? Not the workers.

I can not see one benefit of the EU, the cons out weigh the pros hugely. When it is a question of trade, will Germany stop selling cars to us? will Spain stop the sale of their fruit and veg?

Not a chance. Life will continue on as normal, with bonus of having our borders returned to us and red tape dropped (but not all).

 

[balky12]

I can not see one benefit of the EU, the cons out weigh the pros hugely. When it is a question of trade, will Germany stop selling cars to us? will Spain stop the sale of their fruit and veg?

Not a chance. Life will continue on as normal, with bonus of having our borders returned to us and red tape dropped (but not all).

We are hearing basically the same arguments as we did back when the Euro came in.

If we don't adopt the Euro foreign investment will stop, big companies will leave the UK, rest of EU will not trade with us, blah blah blah.

Not adopting was the best decision we made. Did any of the above happen? Nope.

 

[chris_h]

We are hearing basically the same arguments as we did back when the Euro came in.

If we don't adopt the Euro foreign investment will stop, big companies will leave the UK, rest of EU will not trade with us, blah blah blah.

Not adopting was the best decision we made. Did any of the above happen? Nope.

Couldn't agree more. In fact today HSBC just announced they will stay in the UK rather than move back to Hong Kong. Why? As we are a key financial player with attractive Tax breaks.

Even with a Brexit, they choose to stay.

 

[Freakbro]

Couldn't agree more. In fact today HSBC just announced they will stay in the UK rather than move back to Hong Kong. Why? As we are a key financial player with attractive Tax breaks.

Even with a Brexit, they choose to stay.

Yea, nothing to do the market instability in China or the Chinese Government meddling in Hong Kongs affairs

Also the change in the Bank Levy Osborne has implemented.

They also qualified the 'remain in the UK' statement by saying if events changed significantly they would look again at leaving

So it's not got much to do with the EU question to be fair

 

[Insanties_birth]

Yea, nothing to do the market instability in China or the Chinese Government meddling in Hong Kongs affairs

Also the change in the Bank Levy Osborne has implemented.

They also qualified the 'remain in the UK' statement by saying if events changed significantly they would look again at leaving

So it's not got much to do with the EU question to be fair

Doesn't really matter, they could have moved to any country regardless of what china does. I agree instability in china prevents them moving there but what about USA? Other EU countries? Australia, middle east or canada etc? Nope, they chose to stay here.

America probably only wants us in EU to push TTIP on all europe more easily. Europe is a hot bed of separated regions normally, by unifying us we are more able to create beneficial markets like the open market but we're also more vulnerable to negative market trends like TTIP and vested business interests seem to be very interested in pushing what is in there interest rather than consumer interest so no wonder all the businesses keep shouting to throw away our democracy, pay up for immigration, watch our laws be p*ssed on by political correctness etc. It's all about the money for them. People are so quick to trust an elected figure but lets be honest, when America tells us to stay in EU while they commit to programs like the NSA and TTIP then we can see they have there own interests at heart.

 

[Freakbro]

Doesn't really matter, they could have moved to any country regardless of what china does. I agree instability in china prevents them moving there but what about USA? Other EU countries? Australia, middle east or canada etc? Nope, they chose to stay here.

Because as you alluded to, the tax breaks they get here weighed against the cost of moving HQ's?

And they just announced they would move 1000 jobs from London to Paris if the UK left the EU

 

[scorza]

And they just announced they would move 1000 jobs from London to Paris if the UK left the EU

So hardly economic collapse for the UK as big corporations desert London then?

 

[Freakbro]

So hardly economic collapse for the UK as big corporations desert London then?

*shrug* I try not to listen to the scaremongering from either side of the fence.

I was just pointing out HSBC deciding to remain in the UK has little to do with the EU debate.

 

[Insanties_birth]

Because as you alluded to, the tax breaks they get here weighed against the cost of moving HQ's?

And they just announced they would move 1000 jobs from London to Paris if the UK left the EU

Actually it was soemone else but still, the tax breaks do weigh in against whether they would move, just because they don't move back to hong kong in specific doesn't mean they would randomly and nonsensically completely ignore the fact there are several other countries they can move to. The tax breaks helped them stay here surely.

Well that doesn't sound like a smart move if the EU is going to collapse without us anyway still you can't stop any and all jobs being moved but it does sound like they'd still keep some jobs here if I'm not mistaken. Besides, could just be a bluff. Plenty of businesses have an interest in us staying in the EU to keep profits up as I stated so they can talk big to try and get us to stay but if we don't then I think the amount of jobs we'll lose will be overestimated. They DO want us in the EU so they'll apply pressure but it doesn't mean any hot words exchanged are guaranteed, as I pointed out the french move would be a weak move should the EU zone be weakened by mass immigration and brexit anyway so it doesn't sound like that smart or good a move in my opinion. They are a business after all, a bit of 'negotiation' or misinformation wouldn't surprise me to keep there interests in place.

 

[C64]

It's easy for them to win this referendum all they have to do is scare people with you will have less money.

I fully expect this to be their plan of attack.

 

[C64]

And what about all the UK citizens abroad that are offered protection under the current EU agreements?

Then all those people will have to get green cards wont they.
And most of them are retired people anyway they are not leeching off the state of the country they are in.

 

[datalol-jack]

kitch9, I'd love to have your 'perfect' information and ideal expectations, I really would. A gut feeling isn't really sound input for a cost/benefit analysis now, is it?

Stick to your sandbox, and leave the real world to people who can deal with it.

You say it is misleading and you say it is innacurate and based on an agenda yet when we (majority) are posting evidence from newspapers and reliable websites then how is that misleading?

Oh, really?!

You also follow some wonderful chains of reasoning, no doubt emulating the style of your top sources:

A member of a group commits a crime -> the whole group is responsible for that crime -> its sole purpose for coming here is to commit crime and destroy our predominant, majority culture -> multiculturalism doesn't work -- get rid of it!

No welfare system is prefect -> newcomers will see its abuses, and will always choose to partake in them rather than work -> their sole reason for coming here is thus to seek benefits and draw from the public purse -> send them back.

A big political and economic institution is not infallible -> it therefore insidiously and deliberately conspires to wreck its member nations, even though it stated mission is to ensure their prosperity -> thus it must be dismantled without a plan -> an assortment of independent political and economic fiefdoms that also aren't perfect can do a better job than a federation, with reduced demand, capacity and more trade barriers; we'll muddle through some how.

Politicians and business leaders are human, and so can lie -> they don't agree with my assessment of 'facts' interpreted from secondary sources, so they must be lying -> since my secondary sources are saying what I like to hear, and thus are true, I'll reject what I don't like and will make a better reality for myself.

I trust the media I approve of to give me the facts as they are without manipulating them -> they diligently fact check and there are processes in place to protect the consumer of information from bias and errors -> when they provide an analysis, it's accurate and impartial so I don't need to bother -> thus I can safely base my decisions and opinions on their output with absolute certainty.

In short, why bother with the facts when you can make your own? The spirit of Karl Rove is strong with this one!

 

[RDM]

Doesn't serve the multicultural EUtopia we aspire and profess to being.

On the Rotherham side also... Why was it not reported that local councillors went and gave character testimony on the case? Just saying

But the press don't support the "multicultural EUtopia" so why would they cover it up? Your logic is flawed.

Rotherham has nothing to do with the EU, Pakistan isn't part of the EU.

 

[datalol-jack]

Then all those people will have to get green cards wont they.
And most of them are retired people anyway they are not leeching off the state of the country they are in.

And suddenly the retired demographic can make do without healthcare and social services, or the ease of travel to remain connected to family, friends and other support networks in the UK without extra administrative burdens?

Indeed, what about their pension arrangements? Who will guarantee that income remaining free from the burden of double taxation (at home and in their now new foreign domicile)? By default, if they become permanent residents or citizens, double or otherwise, of a new country without special arrangements with the UK -- any foreign income they receive, such as annuity and pensions, becomes taxable by their domicile. In some arrangements, the tax they have already paid to claim their income may be deductible, in others it won't be. As I said, it's a very murky area, with plenty of bureaucratic puzzles should we leave the EU.

Moreover, if you agree treaties to patch over the effects of transition, where will the money be found to refund people any tax they may have incurred before new agreements take place? Just leave them to it? Introduce a complicated claims process to limit the number of claims? Keep paying a part of our contribution to support our citizens in the EU; but how would that float with the voters who want out precisely because they 'don't want to pay a penny to the EU!'? Again neither the EU nor the UK stance on this is clear.