The reason that brave Breitbart is able to speak out while others remain silent is because they often fabricate and exagerate stories. It's difficult for other media agencies to report on stories that only exist in a Breitbart writer's head.
Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote?
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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The reason that brave Breitbart is able to speak out while others remain silent is because they often fabricate and exagerate stories. It's difficult for other media agencies to report on stories that only exist in a Breitbart writer's head.
Soldato
^
Spot on
Same as all those sheep going 'Trump is the only one not afraid of telling it how it is!'.
Caporegime
We'd default to being governed by World Trade organisation rules on trade barriers and complete freedom to set our immigration policy. Because of the harm that those trade barriers would do to our economy most Leavers argue instead that we'd get a Norway-style position but Norway has given up freedom to set their immigration policy in order to get the position it enjoys with respect to the EU trade area and - equally importantly - in order to gain the enormous benefit to their citizens of freedom-to-work in the EU. It's possible, of course, that the EU would grant the UK free trade access without freedom-to-work but I, and I think most reasonable commentators, believe it to be extremely unlikely.
Caporegime
The WTO is a regulatory, not governing organisation. There is no question that we would be free to trade with the EU and indeed the rest of the world, it's pure scaremongering to suggest otherwise. In fact it would be illegal under world trade agreements for the EU to not trade with us.
I tell you what, I trust Migrationwatch a hell of a lot more than any of your 'reasonable commentators'. Was it a 'reasonable commentator' who said 13,000 Polish migrants would come to the UK?
Caporegime
I never said otherwise
You do understand that we get better access to the EU markets at the moment than other nations, right? It's extremely unlikely we'll get the same access after Brexit unless we also sign up for freedom-to-work. Instead we'd fall back to the WTO agreed levels of trade barriers.
Soldato
Free trade =/= Free to trade
Likewise leaving the EU is not leaving the common market, as much as the pro-EU lot want you to believe, it's BS and spin
Caporegime
Leaving the EU is leaving the common market. We would have the option to negotiate remaining in the common market as part of Brexit discussions but there's (1) no guarantee that we'd be allowed back* and (2) a very high probability that the EU would demand certain things from the UK in return including freedom-to-work. Thus leavers who want to leave the EU in order to reduce migration should recognise that the likely price of being able to do so is leaving, or having reduced access to, the common market.
What I object to is the double-counting of proclaiming that we'd be fine based on Norway and Switzerland whilst simultaneously claiming that we could use leaving the EU to abandon freedom-to-work. In reality, it's very likely that we would be placed in the position of choosing between free access to EU markets and abandoning freedom-to-work.
* - Although I believe it's extremely unlikely that we'd be refused outright.
Caporegime
No the EU is not the common market, the idea of a common European market has largely been superseded by world trade agreements. It is more than unlikely, it is impossible for us not to be "let back in". To suggest otherwise is pure scaremongering.
The good thing about not being in the EU is that EU leaders do not get to demand anything from us anymore. If they want something such as for us to give the right to live and work in the UK for every single one of their citizens then we can politely tell them where to stick it. For sure, in reality we'd reach some sort of deal e.g. a fixed number of work permits for EU citizens each year, but the days of Berlin, Paris and Brussels imposing their will on us will be well and truly over.
Norway and Switzerland have very different relationships with the EU, to suggest that our deal would be exactly the same as theirs does not make any sense whatsoever - we have different issues with the EU that require different solutions. However the facts are that both these countries thrive outside the EU and there's no great movement within these nations to join up.
The good thing about not being in the EU is that EU leaders do not get to demand anything from us anymore. If they want something such as for us to give the right to live and work in the UK for every single one of their citizens then we can politely tell them where to stick it. For sure, in reality we'd reach some sort of deal e.g. a fixed number of work permits for EU citizens each year, but the days of Berlin, Paris and Brussels imposing their will on us will be well and truly over.
Norway and Switzerland have very different relationships with the EU, to suggest that our deal would be exactly the same as theirs does not make any sense whatsoever - we have different issues with the EU that require different solutions. However the facts are that both these countries thrive outside the EU and there's no great movement within these nations to join up.
Caporegime
If you think that world trade agreements would allow us the same access to EU markets we enjoy now then you simply don't understand the benefits we get from the EU. The situation is not as starkly different as it used to be (c.f. the relatively easy access the US has to EU markets) but it is not non-existent.
So, in fact, it's entirely possible for us to be not let back in. More important, it's entirely likely that in order to get back in we'd be required to meet certain requirements including, but not limited to, freedom-to-work.
We could. But doing so would mean giving up things we want - like free access to the common market - and, because we'd be in a very weak negotiating position, we'd likely end up granting the EU rather a lot. We'd then end up being required to stick to a host of EU rules we have no power over at all.
Soldato
We don't get any benefits as you say. Where do you get your info?
The EU sells a lot more to us than we sell to them. In 2014 there was a trade deficit of over £50bn, with a current account deficit of nearly £100 billion
Caporegime
Please explain exactly what these benefits are, because my understanding is that most services, the thing the UK economy does really well on are excluded from the internal market. If we leave then there will be no more uncontrolled immigration to the UK, I'm 100% sure of it.
Nice selective quoting. Why don't you go back and read my whole post? I even addressed the point you made in the very next sentence
Soldato
A new thread and locking this one would be better, so we can see the history.
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