The F1 2014 season

JBeck · 8 Mar 2014 at 13:03

this_is_gav said:
He's won when he's had the best car, he's won when he's not had the best car.

What has he won when he hasn't had the best car? Just to clarify

He's won in all sorts of conditions, he's toppling records without losing breath. He is undoubtedly a great.

Toppling records when the RBR has been streets ahead of the rest of the field hardly makes him a great.

this_is_gav · 8 Mar 2014 at 13:35

justbeats said:
What has he won when he hasn't had the best car? Just to clarify

Races?

Reaper 392 · 8 Mar 2014 at 15:55

Can't we just have a separate thread (or several) for arguing about which drivers, teams and team members are good/bad/immoral/unlikable/etc? It would make all the other F1 threads about 1000x better

Marvin · 8 Mar 2014 at 16:02

Reaper 392 said:
Can't we just have a separate thread (or several) for arguing about which drivers, teams and team members are good/bad/immoral/unlikable/etc? It would make all the other F1 threads about 1000x better

Probably be empty too TBH though.

Reaper 392 · 8 Mar 2014 at 16:41

Marvin said:
Probably be empty too TBH though.

I think that the other threads were probably mostly empty aside from driver arguments because the people going over the same argument for the hundredth time drove everyone else away. I think that Duke said that he stopped making the threads because of the same argument happening in every thread, and the person who volunteered to make the threads this year whose name temporarily escapes me said that he wouldn't read the thread past Saturday for the same reason.

deuse · 8 Mar 2014 at 18:00

Reaper 392 said:
I think that the other threads were probably mostly empty aside from driver arguments because the people going over the same argument for the hundredth time drove everyone else away. I think that Duke said that he stopped making the threads because of the same argument happening in every thread, and the person who volunteered to make the threads this year whose name temporarily escapes me said that he wouldn't read the thread past Saturday for the same reason.

And it's very funny that people moan on here about people complaining about other people moaning of people complaining
about other people complaining of the moaning of the people that complain.

Funny old world.

el_dazza · 8 Mar 2014 at 18:01

I actually don't know what Vettel has to do to please some people. It's hardly like he's going to get given the best car and say 'make this slower so I can appease the OcUK hate brigade' is he..?

He was impressive when he drove as a stand-in for BMW.
He scored a pole and a dominant race win in a bloody Toro Rosso, and crushed Bourdais that season.
2 of his WDC titles have been won at the final race - 1 from miles behind and another in a comfortable lead, so he's got bottle to deal with both situations. Before deuse chimes in saying he was lucky to win both, just remember how Hamilton won the 2008 title - insane amounts of luck. Massa retired in Hungary from the lead and that jammy escape in Brazil with the weather changing. Kimi was lucky in 2007 as well, but a certain someone lost his bottle from a commanding lead. Everyone needs things to go their way at some point.
His qualifying pace is ridiculous. A good grid position scores no points but sets you up nicely for Sunday.
He does exactly what's needed in the race, charging away to get out of the DRS zone an managing it accordingly from there..

Ah **** it, why am I bothering.

deuse · 8 Mar 2014 at 18:13

el_dazza said:
Ah **** it, why am I bothering.

Well I don't know do I? mind you Massa did drive a fantastic race at Silverstone in 2008

el_dazza · 8 Mar 2014 at 18:16

deuse said:
Well I don't know do I? mind you Massa did drive a fantastic race at Silverstone in 2008

I'll have you know he won the world donut championship for that performance. :cool:

That made me think of the European GP in 2007, watching the video of those first 2 laps is hilarious

englishpremier · 8 Mar 2014 at 19:14

deuse said:
Well I don't know do I? mind you Massa did drive a fantastic race at Silverstone in 2008

Yeah that bad, like Hamilton's 2009 Chinese GP. Was it 4 spins there?

413x · 8 Mar 2014 at 19:39

this season could really help vettels good driver/average driver debate where people go on about him having the best hardware all the time

Danthus · 8 Mar 2014 at 19:47

al4x said:
this season could really help vettels good driver/average driver debate where people go on about him having the best hardware all the time

Not rally because if he is way down the pack it will be because the car is a dog, not because of his ability.

sunama · 8 Mar 2014 at 19:57

deuse said:
And it's very funny that people moan on here about people complaining about other people moaning of people complaining
about other people complaining of the moaning of the people that complain.

LOL
Thats funny.
Totally agree.

Perhaps some cheese should be offered, to the whiners?

GravyMonster · 8 Mar 2014 at 20:08

OldCoals said:
Not rally because if he is way down the pack it will be because the car is a dog, not because of his ability.

Not true. See Alonso last year and year before.

sunama · 8 Mar 2014 at 20:14

al4x said:
this season could really help vettels good driver/average driver debate where people go on about him having the best hardware all the time

Unfortunately, some people just don't want to admit that Vettel really is "that" good. The fact that he posted a new record last year for winning 9 races in a row. The fact that he is ahead (by age/experience) of any driver who has ever raced in F1. That fact that he holds numerous other records.

He is systematically removing MSc's name from the record books and that's pretty damn impressive, as many felt that MSc's records would stand for decades.

When MSc won 7 titles, many people did not rate the guy. The fact is that, to win a title, even in the best car, is not easy or straight forward. A good example is when McLaren built (arguably) the joint fastest car of 2012. Neither of their (experienced) drivers finished in the top 3, which speaks volumes.

Same goes for 2007 - once again the best car (McLaren) did not win the title.

Most drivers make excuses. Vettel never makes excuses - he simply wins the title. Give him the best car on the grid, he'll win you the title. Not many drivers can boast this.

Reaper 392 · 8 Mar 2014 at 20:47

deuse said:
And it's very funny that people moan on here about people complaining about other people moaning of people complaining
about other people complaining of the moaning of the people that complain.

Funny old world.

I'm not sure if you mean me when you say people are complaining about others who complain, but if you did mean me then i can assure you that i wasn't complaining about the complainers. I was just citing Duke and Shimmy as others who I assume are fed up of wading through reams of the same arguments about which driver is best to find interesting information.

I wouldn't want to stop people having that argument because clearly quite a few people want to, I just figured that since it looks like it isn't just me that is fed up with it that it would be nice to move it into its own thread.

If it is just me being a grumpy git then I'll go back to my usual ways of ignoring anything posted in a race thread after saturday

LizardKing · 8 Mar 2014 at 20:47

el_dazza said:
He scored a pole and a dominant race win in a bloody Toro Rosso, and crushed Bourdais that season.
.

In fairness to Bourdais, F1 is a very different beast to his more familiar champ cars, but lets not forget he did get the fastest lap of the race at Monza the year Vettel went on to win,

Vettel is good possibly great

, but to gauge just how good he is we really need to see how he copes when the odds are faced against him.
The history books will be kind to him that's for sure!

this_is_gav · 8 Mar 2014 at 20:57

LizardKing said:
In fairness to Bourdais, F1 is a very different beast to his more familiar champ cars, but lets not forget he did get the fastest lap of the race at Monza the year Vettel went on to win,

That means nothing. Vettel was controlling the pace at the front, steadily pulling away, while Bordais was a lap down, trying to make up ground after stalling on the formation lap.

Spunkey said:
Not true. See Alonso last year and year before.

I'm a massive Alonso fan, but he didn't have a massive engine deficit and huge cooling issues. Great driving is fine if you're driving around handling issues (and Alonso is proven expert at this), but if you're the rumoured 130hp down, you can't do anything.

I'll go out on a limb - I'm expecting Vettel to qualify in the top 10, but then have his pace drop significantly in the race if they have to keep temperatures under control. He'll still be top 10 if he finishes, but behind cars he'd qualified in front of.

LizardKing · 8 Mar 2014 at 21:09

this_is_gav said:
That means nothing. Vettel was controlling the pace at the front, steadily pulling away, while Bordais was a lap down, trying to make up ground after stalling on the formation lap.

Pretty easy to do when the people behind you cant see a thing

Kovalainen came 2nd as well, i think that sums up that race

I'm far from knocking Vettel for winning that race, a win is a win but that race was more of a abnormality than some brilliant driving ability overcoming all odds.

this_is_gav · 8 Mar 2014 at 21:13

LizardKing said:
Pretty easy to do when the people behind you cant see a thing

He was 2 seconds ahead after the first (flying) lap.

I'm just rewatching it now (first time in 6(!) years), and James Allen is on about Hamilton complaining about brakes before the race... Where have we heard that before?