The FA CUP Third Round ** Spoilers ** [5th - 8th January 2018] + Replays
- Thread starter Cosimo
- Start date
So the first VAR goal was awarded tonight:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42712751
In this incident VAR has worked but what happens if the throughball was 10 yards deeper and the attacker picks the ball up and needs to take multiple touches before he gets his shot away? The lino has to flag as soon as he controls the ball and the chance has gone or will the ref wait until he's shot and then review the incident when the ball finally goes out of play?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42712751
In this incident VAR has worked but what happens if the throughball was 10 yards deeper and the attacker picks the ball up and needs to take multiple touches before he gets his shot away? The lino has to flag as soon as he controls the ball and the chance has gone or will the ref wait until he's shot and then review the incident when the ball finally goes out of play?
Caporegime
I watched that live, i've always thought video evidence would be good but now it's actually being put into practice i'm not sure what I think about it.
It'll take some getting used to, I suppose at least the correct decision was made in the end.
It'll take some getting used to, I suppose at least the correct decision was made in the end.
It's only used in the cases of a goal, penalty or straight red. If the play is stopped before a goal is scored, it wouldn't get reviewed.
If the flag is raised, play doesn't stop unless the referee blows, so in theory they could just start letting these offsides play through to goal or miss and then just disallow any goals that were offside. Teams will have to sure to play to the whistle and not the flags.
What was definitely frustrating was how long it took, the TV broadcast had managed about 5 replays including the one with special lines on it, it shouldn't take that long for the system to review and communicate in a simple offside query like that.
This is where the problems are going to come. The lino flags, the ref decides to delay his whistle, striker shoots and keeper catches the shot - do you then carry on playing until the ball eventually goes out of play, which could be another minute or 2, and then review the offside or do you completely ignore the flag and play on as if it didn't happen? Surely you can't do the latter. Imagine if from the keepers save the other team go straight down the other end and score - which to be fair will cause ****ing chaos either way.
They need to develop some sort of automatic offside thing using GPS or whatever, which instantly alerts the ref to a player being in an offside position and then allow the ref to decide straight away whether he was interfering with play or not. VAR for offsides is a possible minefield.
I think they'll more than likely go the 'total cop out' route and blow for offside most of the time and just shrug their shoulders in the cases where they were actually onside, with the odd goal getting checked if it was tight like this evening. They'll avoid using VAR for anything at all that isn't effectively a direct impact on the result.
Part of me still thinks the system might work better if it was a 'call for review' system where the bench can request a review but on a 3 strikes basis so that they only request reviews on decisions they're confident were wrong, not just every foul and trip.
Part of me still thinks the system might work better if it was a 'call for review' system where the bench can request a review but on a 3 strikes basis so that they only request reviews on decisions they're confident were wrong, not just every foul and trip.
This isn't a case of a player knowing he's offside and giving up on a throughball though. A player is offside if they play or attempt to play the ball. As soon as the attacker controls and takes his shot, assuming he is actually offside, it should result in a free-kick. Surely you can't say "oh well he missed, we'll not bother checking". Change my scenario above and the keeper saves it, passes the ball out to his defender who loses the ball and the attacker that should have just been given offside scores. Are you going back and checking the initial offside or does the possible review expire the moment he has his first attempt?
As above, VAR for offsides is going to be a problem. After my initial post I saw Poll's explanation on BT and he said "it was lucky the ref didn't blow straight away" (or words to that effect) which suggests there's no clear guidelines as to what refs should be doing. We're going to have one game where the ref will blow early and it'll end up being the wrong decision but it can't be reviewed and the next week a ref won't blow and a goal will be given. That's before my more complex scenarios pop up. Like with goal line technology, they need to develop something which can instantly tell the ref whether the player was offside or not - surely that can't be too difficult?
Soldato
My thinking was the linos will all eventually err on the side of the attackers when it comes to offsides, if it’s a 50-50 don’t flag let the goal maybe get scored then let VAR bail you out if you’re wrong.
I think really, given VAR is supposedly only for goal decisions, strictly speaking offsides should never be an issue, in theory.
The referee SHOULD be blowing as soon as it's flagged and that's that, if it's wrong, tough because a wrong offside isn't VAR.
If he somehow misses the flag and an offside goal is scored, it can be subsequently disallowed which was in theory possible pre VAR anyway.
What tonight highlighted is the tiny middle ground where the goal has been scored before he's had the chance to blow for the offside offence.
The referee SHOULD be blowing as soon as it's flagged and that's that, if it's wrong, tough because a wrong offside isn't VAR.
If he somehow misses the flag and an offside goal is scored, it can be subsequently disallowed which was in theory possible pre VAR anyway.
What tonight highlighted is the tiny middle ground where the goal has been scored before he's had the chance to blow for the offside offence.
So tonight's goal shouldn't have been given? I guess the flag went up before the shot and therefore the whistle should have blown before the goal. If this is the case then it's even more of a minefield - players will be trying to shoot first time so that the ref doesn't have time to blow the whistle!
Well when you look at it, the goal has only occurred because he's managed to shoot quicker than the linesman can flag and the ref can whistle in response. If that had occurred further back, play would have been stopped and no review would have taken place even though he was onside.So tonight's goal shouldn't have been given? I guess the flag went up before the shot and therefore the whistle should have blown before the goal. If this is the case then it's even more of a minefield - players will be trying to shoot first time so that the ref doesn't have time to blow the whistle!
Like you say, that creates the obvious incentive to get a shot away ASAP to beat the whistle as you at least get half a chance of a VAR award if you did happen to be incorrectly called offside and the ball is in the net.
They do need to have a think about the consequences of letting play run on a bit (and then what constitutes a bit) versus calling offsides as soon as possible to avoid getting into goal situations with it.
And here is where all the inconsistencies will occur. One week the ref plays on and a goal is given, another week the ref blows before the shot and the next a ref blows the moment the attacker takes his shot.
VAR for offsides is a load of ****. Just give the players electronic tags and develop a system that alerts the ref if they're in an offside position and leave it to him to decide whether they're interfering with play.
Caporegime
It's going to need a change in mentality from the players, how often have you heard the phrase 'play to the whistle' in the last, well, ever? Yet still players don't follow it.
We will undoubtedly see players waving at their mothers in the crowd for an offside, the flag goes up and they stop, player runs on and scores and the goal is given because it was actually onside. It's ingrained into them, much like stopping when they think they've been fouled instead of playing on until the ref gives it.
We will undoubtedly see players waving at their mothers in the crowd for an offside, the flag goes up and they stop, player runs on and scores and the goal is given because it was actually onside. It's ingrained into them, much like stopping when they think they've been fouled instead of playing on until the ref gives it.
Caporegime
Soldato
Oops!
LOL
LOL
Soldato
Get in Norwich
Caporegime
Shocking decision.